Trait idea: Healthy (very weak regeneration)

Garion · Post by **Garion** » March 9th, 2006, 6:26 am

I didn't mean to step on any toes, and I really do think the dev team here has put together an incredible and interesting game.

That said, I didn't insinuate that you, Noy, were against new traits because you were saying this thread was bad. I inferred that you were against new traits because you actually said "I don't think more traits is necessarily a good thing."

I hope you will understand that this lead me to the conclusion that you didn't want more traits.

In retrospect, it is clear that all you meant was that we need a good trait, not just a new trait.

I agree. And since JW - and Maeglin - laid the challenge before me, I suggest this: Healthy. A healthy unit would heal 1 or 2 HP at the start of each turn. Not unbalancing, I don't think, not against the Wesnoth philosophy, but undeniably useful.

A Healthy Troll would heal 10 each turn - 2 for the trait, +8 for regeneration- or 12 if he rested. That's still not unreasonable, since even a level one elvish scout is capable of taking twelve HP in a single attack.

If it has been proposed before, I'd like a link to the thread so I can contest whatever arguments there are against this. I see no reason it shouldn't work.

EDITED for accuracy in the trollish example.

Post by **irrevenant** » March 9th, 2006, 11:31 am

I don't think that trolls should be allowed to get "Healthy". Not only would this (IMO) make them too powerful, but it would violate Wesnoth's standard approach of maximum 8 healing per turn, per unit.

The trait idea seems on the surface like it should be balanced against other traits.

I don't recall this particular variant having been suggested before.

drachefly · Post by **drachefly** » March 9th, 2006, 7:35 pm

irrevenant wrote:I don't think that trolls should be allowed to get "Healthy". Not only would this (IMO) make them too powerful, but it would violate Wesnoth's standard approach of maximum 8 healing per turn, per unit.

Plus rest healing -> maximum of 10.

In a previous go-round it was suggested that a trait could amplify rest-healing. Now, in order to get to give as many HP as Resilient in less than an insanely long time, the bonus has to be around +3 (so after two turns you have gained more HP than the resilient guy would have started with).

Note that this is not broken to put on a troll, since rest-healing doesn't occur if the unit is attacked.

I don't remember anyone shooting that idea down.

Garion · Post by **Garion** » March 9th, 2006, 8:13 pm

Oh, sorry, Deathblower; I just missed the second half of Gane's suggestion and couldn't figure out what you were talking about. I'd just awakened when I posted that and wasn't really functioning at full mental capacity.

Probably shouldn't be foruming in that state.

Anyway, drachefly, sure. Trolls are exempted. My suggestion would work every turn regardless of rest, and could probably therefore be 2 or even 1 HP and still be comparable in usefulness to Resilient.

But even the resting variation sounds great to me. Both variations are simple, universally useful, and either can be implemented immediately with only a very small change to the code that already exists for regeneration.

What's not to like? If we think we need a new trait - and the reasons for that are well established - let's go with this.

Deathblower · Post by **Deathblower** » March 9th, 2006, 9:01 pm

I have to admit it's my favourite idea so far, as it is very simple. I think just 1 HP would be enough though. It may not seem like it at the time, but it would quickly make up for the HP it could have had with resilient.

DB

Lu Mong · Post by **Lu Mong** » March 9th, 2006, 11:05 pm

Yeh. This idea seem good to me... but 3HP/turn is imho too much... 1 or 2 seems resonable though...

Post by **turin** » March 9th, 2006, 11:09 pm

The current maximum is 10 HP/turn right now - EVEN FOR TROLLS. Trolls are not affected by village healing!

I don't see why this would be particularly unbalancing for trolls...

Anyway, I like this idea. It was proposed several months ago, I supported it then, I support it now.

We need a better name though...

-> What i might be working on · Post by **Eleazar** » March 9th, 2006, 11:25 pm

I'm not an authority on balance,
but i like this idea. (or i like the idea of having such units

)

IMHO the 8 HP (+2 while resting) healing cap should remain in force.

Not all races would need to have access to this trait. i'd not give it to undead, (nor trolls & woses since it would be useless to them)

Post by **turin** » March 9th, 2006, 11:30 pm

I don't see why this wouldn't come on in the same way that resting did - i.e., in addition to the HP gainable by curing/healing/regenerates/villages. So, if you rest in a village and you have this trait, you get +12 not +10 HP. If you have this trait and you move to a village, you get +10 not +8 HP. If you are being healed and have this trait, you get +6 not +4 HP. Etc. That doesn't seem overpowered to me... sure, it's useful, but not overpowered. In a game where units that are wounded can frequently end up dead 3 turns later, it might even be underpowered, potentially giving only +6 HP, slightly worse than resilient.

JW · Post by JW » March 10th, 2006, 12:59 am

I like the trait, but what units would get it? Does it make sense for humans to get it for example? Perhapsit does; I'm just asking the question.

Post by **turin** » March 10th, 2006, 1:04 am

JW wrote:I like the trait, but what units would get it? Does it make sense for humans to get it for example? Perhapsit does; I'm just asking the question.

When it was suggested previously, it was as a dwarf-specific trait. That makes sense to me. Perhaps drakes could also get it. I say that humans shouldn't, nor should orcs.

Garion · Post by **Garion** » March 10th, 2006, 1:21 am

Well, I meant it to be available to all - except, obviously, undead, who don't get traits. It's not supposed to represent regeneration. We already have regeneration.

This is just supposed to be an individual who recovers from injury more quickly than his peers. I'm open to renaming it (Stout? Hearty? Hale?).

The whole purpose of this exercise was to expand the pool of general traits, though.

SmokemJags · Post by **SmokemJags** » March 10th, 2006, 1:23 am

First Aid!
That's a good name for it.

It isn't so much a name that reflects increase stamina, but it is a name that reflects an increased ability to recover from wounds. That is what is being discussed, yes?
The trait of healing faster/better not being stronger/having more hp.

Garion · Post by **Garion** » March 10th, 2006, 1:30 am

First Aid's pretty good, but you give first aid to someone else, usually, not yourself.

SmokemJags · Post by **SmokemJags** » March 10th, 2006, 1:35 am

True...
Thick blooded?
As in their blood clots fast so they heal quicker?