Don't say it! (you'll kill one)

[Mountain_King]

The Asian (including Russian) tradition is very different from the Western fairy tale. Dragons, for example, bring good luck and scare away evil, while in the West, they were considered the epitome of evil.

(I couldn't help myself from weighing in on a discussion about dragons... )

In the ancient world, dragons were always regarded and treated as real, flesh-and-blood creatures. For example, China used to have a royal "dragon feeder" whose office was hereditary. In fact, if you are Chinese and have the surname "Long" you are descended from the original Dragon Keeper in the Chinese court. It was a possibly herbivorous sort of dragon that lived in China.

In Europe, dragons were much more malevolent. They gobbled up sheep, people, and chickens. Some flew, others breathed fire, and some hid out in the swamps. Most were carnivorous. The reason they were often (in Europe) viewed as the epitome of evil is because of a poetic Biblical reference to Satan as "that old dragon".

Spoiler:

That's not an attempt to make the discussion religious, so don't you dare try and take it there.

Dragon is also often interchangeable with "winged serpent", a beast that is known to have lived up until recent times. (Wales early 1800s, an entire rookery of winged serpents was killed for robbing the local farmers of their chickens; Herodotus commented on how winged serpents nested in Frankincense trees, etc.)

The Americas are not exempt from dragon legends either, with beasts such as the mighty Thunderbird flapping across their ancient skies. These legends had to come from somewhere...
However, the biggest trait of non-Chinese dragons is that they are extremely rare, which brings in the exaggeration factor (the story gets bigger every time you tell it). This is what happens when you get scared by something big, that is ten times bigger next time the story is told.


Oh yeah, and I don't think faeries are real. Dragons, yes. Faeries, no.

[Iris]

You ask most people you meet how computers work and they will have not the faintest idea.

Even people who know how electronics work may call it magic, if only for the sake of a fun in-joke.

See: Magic smoke.

[Frogger5]

Sorry to say, but I think that's a load of garbage. Everyone has the right to believe in what they choose, and therefore everyone should respect each other's beliefs.

Why? You didn't give any reasoning as to why your belief is the right one.
In Christ,
Crushmaster.

There is know right or wrong belief, that is why they're called beliefs. Because they're things that people think and true but don't necessarily have to be proved.
If someone studied for a lifetime and discovered my theory that magic exists is true, then that changes magical beliefs entirely.

[johndh]

There is know right or wrong belief, that is why they're called beliefs. Because they're things that people think and true but don't necessarily have to be proved.

You're describing an opinion, not a belief. Whether you prefer pancakes or hash browns is an opinion, as it's entirely subjective to the mind of the person making the decision. Beliefs are not like opinions. A lot of people used to believe in spontaneous generation. That was a belief and it was wrong. If you believe in faeries and they don't exist, then you're wrong. If you disbelieve in faeries and they do exist, then you're wrong. Simple.

[Huumy]

You're describing an opinion, not a belief. Whether you prefer pancakes or hash browns is an opinion, as it's entirely subjective to the mind of the person making the decision. Beliefs are not like opinions. A lot of people used to believe in spontaneous generation. That was a belief and it was wrong. If you believe in faeries and they don't exist, then you're wrong. If you disbelieve in faeries and they do exist, then you're wrong. Simple.

Tho usually it don't matter who is right or wrong. Some1 could believe in fairies even if they didn't exist (no idea how any1 ever could prove that) they could still be happier cause they believe in fairies even if the fairies didn't exist.
In cases where one beliefs are harming others it can be useful to show that he is wrong, but if that's not case it does not give you any benefit to be right when some1 disagrees with you (even after you have made clear why you are right).
It's really hard to know (or think) to be right still not get some1 to think same way you do. That is why I love competitive games, it doesn't matter to me if some1 disagrees with me on what's good way to play starcraft or wesnoth I can just shut up and go own some noobies (tho I'm noobie in both games that why I own myself sometimes).

And there's of course beliefs that there's no objective reality. Every1 has their own subjective reality that interacts with other people subjective realitys. Meaning that if one person beliefs something is true, it literally is true in his reality. I'm not saying I agree or disagree.

This post point was (like many posts before this) that it's not important to be right or wrong as long as you are happy. Tho sometimes it's good to take stand for your beliefs (not for any1 elses, cause they do it if they want to) in non-violent way.
So basically this was long post about what I think about believing in something silly like fairies. Now I can go to the corner do my silly fairy dance with silly fairies.

I know (think) that the post I quoted wasn't saying it is important to be right it simply stated that you can be right or wrong in certain things.
Over and out! *with sexy action hero voice

[Frogger5]

There is know right or wrong belief, that is why they're called beliefs. Because they're things that people think and true but don't necessarily have to be proved.

You're describing an opinion, not a belief. Whether you prefer pancakes or hash browns is an opinion, as it's entirely subjective to the mind of the person making the decision. Beliefs are not like opinions. A lot of people used to believe in spontaneous generation. That was a belief and it was wrong. If you believe in faeries and they don't exist, then you're wrong. If you disbelieve in faeries and they do exist, then you're wrong. Simple.

Lets make a vendiagram shall we?

Belief:
Accepting, or having a strong faith that something is true, or exists.

Similarities:
Cannot be judged as right or wrong as there is no proof of ether.

Opinion:
One's thought or judgement on an object, belief, issue etc.

There was a comment earlier about what magic actually is. If it's just something in the mind, and therefore exists, or if it has to be something in this physical world. Well, I think it could be both of them put together, my mind is a part of the physical world. My imagination is just as real to me as the more tangible world I live in. Therefore, thats physical enough for me.
For all we know, we could e the creation of a mind outside. that statement was a little less serious.

[PeterPorty]

Actually... spontaneous generation hasn't been proved wrong, nobody has ever watched all basic matter for all the time needed, so they couldn't possibly know if at some point something actually came out of a rock. All we have right now is a belief that other theories are much more probable, and that SG is not a good theory since it isn't based on any scientific fact, but you can't say for sure it is wrong.

[johndh]

Actually... spontaneous generation hasn't been proved wrong, nobody has ever watched all basic matter for all the time needed, so they couldn't possibly know if at some point something actually came out of a rock. All we have right now is a belief that other theories are much more probable, and that SG is not a good theory since it isn't based on any scientific fact, but you can't say for sure it is wrong.

Of course you can't definitively prove the non-existence of a phenomenon, but come on.

[Jozrael]

So if I repeat "I don't believe in fairies" enough times, there really won't be any left, amirite? Or do they have an overly prodigious reproductive rate?

[Frogger5]

Like a I mentioned before about humans befuddling magical myths.

[Midnight_Carnival]

Ok, that's quite a lot.

Don't know where the conversation has gone since I left, and I hope I don't derail the derailment of my own thread here. (will read everything soon) Staying with my family I watched television, not something I would normally do. Glad I did though, becasue there was this program about people who were investigating the bigfoot/sasquach reports. These were not just some kids with cameras going into the woods for fun, but crime-scene experts, archeologists, really scientific people and a skeptic, just to keep things in perspective. They examined actual physical evidence (hair, footprint casts, etc...), as well as cross-examining eye-witnesses rather mercilessly. They also used expensive equipment to find the big hairy guys. Their findings?

well, the skeptic remained (can you guess?) skeptical, but the rest of the team was convinced that they did exist. They could not conclusively prove or disprove their existence at the end of their prolonged examination of the evidence at hand.

Bigfoots (Bigfeet?) whatever the collective noun for Sasquach is... are supposed to be huge, but presumably only semi-intelligent (smarter than dogs, but not quite our level). If we can't find them, or find proof that the evidence we have is fake, how much more difficult would it be when dealing with creatures far more intelligent than us?

-Oh, and with regards to about the only thing I read so far: Computers are magical, they have really bad voodoo!

[bazzz]

Fairies and bigfoot no problem but if you going to believe whats on tv....

[sur.nhm]

Fairies and bigfoot no problem but if you going to believe whats on tv....

Then you are in a really bad shape.

[Midnight_Carnival]

Ok.
Read most of it.

I am aware that I may exhibit some exentricities in my internet persona, but I wouldn't kill someone if I thought they were killing fairies. I wouldn't kill somone if I thought they were killing schoolkids, I would only take such action if I had proof, and proving that someone is killing fairies requires proof that fairies exist which is difficult for the above-mentioned reasons.

I have explained how belief in "magic" is not necesarry for belief in fairies, they could for example have really great technology or something, but I would like to discuss "magic" further.

It's no secret that we live in a universe surrounded by forces we do not understand. A few years ago people would probalby have called it "magic", now scientists call it "dark energy" or some such, it's just a part of the map people haven't explored and so they wrote "here be dragons" - of course the map is not the world, and our understanding of the way the unverse works is not the way the unvers works, only an abstracted aproximation thereof. Fear of the unknown causes people to look at the map and not want to go there becasue they don't want to fight dragons, laziness and stupidity add to the problem. I find it funny that countries who have millions of dollars to waste should waste them on searching the -um slighly big cosmos for inteligent life when we don't know for sure that we are the only inteligent life on earth.

But in the end, I suppose, it just comes down to whether you want to live in a world with magic or not.

[Mica]

Fairies and bigfoot no problem but if you going to believe whats on tv....

You act like educational television doesn't exist. It does, and it's facts. Now I don't suggest believing stuf from a fictional show, but if it's from something like National Geographic or the History channel, then don't dismiss it as false.

Anyways, I'll be honest with you, it doesn't really matter if fairies exist or not. We'll probably never find them (as they are usually perceived as small and intelligent). So what if someone believes in fairies? I think that's fine, I'm not going to call him crazy for believing in fairies.