Arendians

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Arendians

Postby Ranger M » December 31st, 2005, 12:43 pm

I am making a new faction for my campaign and possibly to go in the imperial era (if they let me, I figure they could use more than three factions) Here are the basic unit trees, I have attempted to balance them, but I get the overall feeling that I have made them too powerful, please could people comment on the stats and say weather you think that I have made them overpowered.

here is the tree and the units stats:

Code: Select all
Swordsman->Commander->Warlord (warrior with leadership)
->Wanderer->Hero (high defence many attacks and skirmisher, but low HP)
->warrior->Battlear (tough, armoured and strong, but slow and not many attacks)

Archer->Hunter->Slayer (good ranged and average melee)
->feather bow->arrow wind (great ranged, bad melee)

Druid->Shaman->Warlock (heals, low damage magic attack)

Bowrider->Bowknight->Bowmaster (a mounted archer and scout, Bowmaster needs better name)

Horseman->Mounted Warrior->Horse Master (cavalry with swords, can be scouts, also need better names)


descriptions


Swordsman
level=1
cost=14
XP=38
HP=32
movement=5
sword         6-4   (blade)


Chief
level=2
cost=
XP=88
HP=46
movement=5
sword         7-4   (blade)
bow         6-2   (pierce)


Warlord
level=3
cost=
XP=100
HP=58
movement=5
sword         9-4   (blade)
bow         8-3   (pierce)


Wanderer
level=2
cost=
XP=
HP=42
movement=6
sword         6-5   (blade)
throwing knives      6-3   (pierce)


Hero
level=3
cost=
XP=100
HP=50
movement=6
double bladed sword   8-5   (blade)
throwing knives      7-2   (pierce)


Warrior
level=2
cost=
XP=98
HP=56
movement=4
mace         16-2   (impact)


Battlear
level=3
cost=
XP=100
HP=68
movement=4
morrning star      18-3   (impact)


Archer
level=1
cost=17
XP=48
HP=32
movement=6
dagger         6-2   (blade)
bow         6-3   (pierce)


Hunter
level=2
cost=
XP=88
HP=50
movement=7
sword         7-4   (blade)
bow         8-3   (pierce)
bow         10-2   (fire)

Slayer
level=3
cost=
XP=100
HP=66
movement=7
sword         10-4   (blade)
bow         13-3   (pierce)
bow         15-2   (fire)


Feather Bow
level=2
cost=
XP=76
HP=41
movement=6
dagger         5-3   (blade)
bow         8-4   (pierce)   marksman


Arrow Wind
level=3
cost=
XP=100
HP=57
movement=6
dagger         7-3   (blade)
bow         9-5   (pierce)   marksman


Druid
level=1
cost=19
XP=34
HP=32
heals
movement=5
staff         6-3   (impact)
fire ball      5-3   (fire)


Shaman
level=2
cost=
XP=85
HP=38
cures
movement=5
staff         8-3   (impact)
fire ball      7-4   (fire)


Warlock
level=3
cost=
XP=100
HP=50
cures
movement=5
staff         10-3   (impact)
fire ball      9-4   (fire)


Bowrider
level=1
cost=18
XP=41
HP=28
movement=9
sword         5-2   (blade)
bow         6-3   (pierce)


Bowknight
level=2
cost=
XP=83
HP=37
movement=9
sword         6-3   (blade)
bow         8-4   (pierce)


Bowmaster
level=3
cost=
XP=100
HP=45
movement=9
sword         6-4   (blade)
bow         10-4   (pierce)


Horseman
level=1
cost=16
XP=28
HP=36
movement=8
sword         5-4   (blade)


Mounted Warrior
level=2
cost=
XP=116
HP=48
movement=9
sword         8-4   (blade)


Horse Master
level=3
cost=
XP=100
HP=60
movement=10
sword         11-4   (blade)


Jetryl said:

All of that is subordinate to getting the graphics done, and done well, since without them we basically don't have a unit. People trying to develop new factions could really learn from this philosophy.


I have learnt from this (before you actually said it as I had already prepared the images I have posted in art develpoment)
Last edited by Ranger M on June 23rd, 2006, 9:54 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Postby Noyga » December 31st, 2005, 1:49 pm

Well if you compare with existing units, most of your units seems fine, but your level 3 warrior unit seem a little overpowered.

- The Warlord (and the chief too) would probably be fine if he hadn't leadership.
With leadership it is way better than other similar units.
I suggest you decrease a little its melee attack.

- The Hero is probably just a little too strong, but is is quite similar to the fencer line.
The Wanderer is close to the Duelist with a better melee attack but less hp
You should probably do the same with Hero vs Master at Arms : (which currently has 56 HP)

- The Warrior is good as is, for the Battlear 60 damage is probably a little too much for a lvl 3 unit.
I would decrease it damage to something like 18-3

- For the Hunter line, i like the idea for the fire arrow : more damage / strike but less strikes
You probaly made an error for the Hunter :
bow 8-3 (pierce)
bow 10-3 (fire)

You mean 10-2 (fire) ? This seems logical according to the slayer stats

The other units seems quite balanced to me.

When you make a unit, it is quite useful to compare to similar one in http://units.wesnoth.org

For the missing lvl 1 costs, i'll probably give :
- around 19 g for the Druid
- around 17 g for the Horse Archer
- around 16 g for the Horseman
but i'm not an expert.[/url]
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Postby Ranger M » December 31st, 2005, 2:13 pm

Ok I have reduced the chief and warlord lines melee attack damage and a bit of health(I assume that is what you meant)

Code: Select all
Chief
level=2
cost=
XP=88
HP=46
movement=5
sword         7-4   (blade)
bow         6-2   (pierce)


Warlord
level=3
cost=
XP=100
HP=58
movement=5
sword         9-4   (blade)
bow         8-3   (pierce)


I have also made the Hero, have less HP and one less ranged, but I didn't alter the melee as that is the main purpose of the unit, many hits, med damage and high defence

Code: Select all
Hero
level=3
cost=
XP=100
HP=50
movement=6
double bladed sword   8-5   (blade)
throwing knives      7-2   (pierce)


reduced the Battlear's damage.

Code: Select all
Battlear
level=3
cost=
XP=100
HP=68
movement=4
morrning star      18-3   (impact)


corrected the Hunter fire arrow attack (yes it was a mistake, thanks for noticing)

Code: Select all
Hunter
level=2
cost=
XP=88
HP=50
movement=7
sword         7-4   (blade)
bow         8-3   (pierce)
bow         10-2   (fire)


also added level one costs.

Thanks for the help, I had tried to make them not too powerful by compareing them to other units from wesnoth, but I was bound to make mistakes. Thanks again.

ps have edited the post above with changes
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Postby dvlenk6 » December 31st, 2005, 9:50 pm

Code: Select all
Horse Archer->Mounted Marksman->Mounted Sharpshooter
Bowrider->Bowknight->Bowmaster


I like archers :D . Mounted archers are better :lol: . They will make excellent scout units, able to get into the melee when needed to. Not quite as much punch as their unmounted counterparts, but ALOT faster. Maneuverability is, of course, a key stat to begin with. An increase in movement is well worth the loss of a few measely hit points.

Maybe with units like these I'd actually consider recruiting a mounted unit other than an Elvish Scout. As it is now, I would NEVER waste my money on a horseman or cavalryman :evil: , if almost anything else is available.

P.S. I looked at your graphics for the new faction. They look to be on par with existing unit graphics. The hero,wanderer, and horse archer (bowrider?) are very good.
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Postby Ranger M » December 31st, 2005, 11:24 pm

right I have added one more movement to the horse archer line. to balance this I have reduced the HP to 28 in the first level, and increased the cost (As I felt that just taking away two HP wasn't enough, but anything lower than 28 HP would die too quickly), I have also reduced the HP of the other levels.

I have also just realised that the horseman does less melee damage than the horse archer, so I have increased it's damage by one, and knocked off one movement to account for this. However the later levels were fine.

And I have changed the names of the horse archer as suggested (cos I liked them, and they were better than the old ones), but I think that Bowmaster could be improved as it doesn't imply a mounted unit. I might make mounted marksman be the level three, but I am not sure.

I have changed the top post to reflect this.
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Postby Becephalus » January 6th, 2006, 12:56 pm

In my opinion 10 is too much movement for any movement and 9 probably is too. I really wish the cap was 8 or so.
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Postby Ranger M » January 6th, 2006, 7:59 pm

this is supposed to be a very horse/mounted faction (see the art thread, I have planned a few more units to this affect, but don't have any stats so I haven't added it yet) so I think that having better movement is justified, also see the cavalryman unit, has jots of movement, especially in high levels.

If I remember correctly I had two units with 10 movement in a camaign once, but I might be wrong.

*Goes to check unit file*
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Postby turin » January 6th, 2006, 11:09 pm

A unit might have 10 MP with "quick", but a balanced unit will never have 10 to start with.

IIRC, the Nemidian Cavalryman has 9 MP. You should consider that the max, probably. Any someone like Noy might come in and say that even that is too much.
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Postby Ranger M » January 7th, 2006, 12:58 pm

very good point :oops:

I'll make the level 2 have 8 and level 3 have 9, (I still want an increase from level 2 to 3)
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Postby ben » January 8th, 2006, 1:08 am

turin wrote:A unit might have 10 MP with "quick", but a balanced unit will never have 10 to start with.

IIRC, the Nemidian Cavalryman has 9 MP. You should consider that the max, probably. Any someone like Noy might come in and say that even that is too much.


The Elvish Rider and Outrider have 10, don't they? And the Scout has 9...I can see the argument that these Arendians ought to be slower than the Elvish Scout, but you'd also think mounted archers would be faster than Horseman (8), not having all that heavy armor. That's the trouble with course-grained scales.
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Postby Ranger M » January 8th, 2006, 1:31 am

The archers wil probably get a speed increase to match the arendian horseman line, but will not make a unit have 10 movement, as I have seen many people argueing about units with too much movement, the gryphon has had it's movement reducedto about 8 or 9 (I can't remember which, and I am about to go to sleep so I cannot be bothered to check), and it flies.

also they will have ten sometimes, if they have the quick ability, and ten is only just Ok, nine is enough.
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Postby Ranger M » January 12th, 2006, 11:52 pm

Turin, what else do I need to do to get these added? (I have done two more units so far, mounted marksman, and a mounted crossbowman which needs a better name)
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Postby turin » January 13th, 2006, 12:07 am

I don't have a problem with adding them now, but you need to get all formatting correct for 1.1 first.
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Postby Ranger M » January 13th, 2006, 12:13 am

The files I sent you had 1.1 animation formatting as far as I know, and they work in my test faction on 1.1, Is there anything I missed?
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Postby Ranger M » January 13th, 2006, 12:26 am

I just tried to pm you them, but It said that there wasen't enough space in both out inboxes

Have made some changes (advance to, etc) to some of the units, but I cannot remember what or where (I don't think I changed any stats), so I've posted the whole lot with new ones again.
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