Any tips on knalgan defense?

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Jike
Posts: 1
Joined: May 24th, 2018, 11:38 pm

Any tips on knalgan defense?

Post by Jike » June 13th, 2018, 1:42 pm

Hello to everyone, lately I have been trying to learn how to play knalgans, although I have been struggling to perform well.

The one thing I find myself struggling the most with is organizing a proper defense, which is more often than not what I'll have to fall back into against most matchups

Dwarf units are considerably more reliable at defense when on forts, hills or mountains, although said terrain types are often scarce and spread out, leaving plenty of gaps for the enemy to bypass them and move to steal rear villages, this problem is intensified when you add the fact that dwarves are expensive and lack in mobility, which means they are more likely to leave gaps (specially when forced to stand on isolated hill/fort/mountain tiles), and that the outlaw units are considerably squishier, making them unsuitable for filling said gaps, even if they have more defense while doing it and are easily susceptible to swarming.

That brings me to another problem, swarming, with the enemy being easily able to bypass my line to steal my rear villages, I'm forced to bring my dwarves out of their preferred terrain to stop them, which often exposes them enough that they can easily get surronded and killed, and more often than not I will not be able to commit enough strength to stop the village stealer without also exposing my front villages, or being forced to place an outlaw in them, which can still be surrounded and killed, then the village taken, it happens way too often that my opponent easily surrounds my units then kills them, If I retaliate, it often is never enough to keep my opponent from having a gold advantage, this cycle tends to repeat in my games until my opponent wins

Next is the proper usage of the dwarf guardsman, while good for holding a specific tile, he isn't much of a threatening unit, and the enemy more often than not can just ignore it and go for the rest of my units while taking little damage from the guardsman, am I looking at this the wrong way?

Last point I can think from the top of my head, orcish assassins, they are way too effective at disrupting my defense with heir poison, and more often than not I don't have enough units or tight enough space to organize a proper rotation as I've seen most people suggest, to top it off most hill tiles are often next to forest tiles, which the assassin can exploit more often than not, I could place a poacher in said tiles, but it would more often than not expose them too much, giving the enemy a free kill.

The combination of the above points almost always leads to my defeat, my fate being marked the moment the first village is stolen, I feel I need to be really cautious, but excessive cautiouness often gives my opponent the advantage, I seriously need a paradgim shift and I don't know where is the best way to start, any help will be appreciated.

On a more memey topic, what wicked witch did the Kalgan Alliance piss off that cursed them with horrible RNG when it most matters?

RolfDhew
Posts: 28
Joined: March 4th, 2018, 11:41 am

Re: Any tips on knalgan defense?

Post by RolfDhew » June 13th, 2018, 5:15 pm

I am not a veteran player with knalgan, but I find that when one has a mixed force of dwarves and outlaws, then it is easier to take advantage of the different terrain types. On large maps try to use footpads to capture as many villages as possible, try to continuously capture villages without holding them, this will force the enemy to keep capturing villages, that will disperse their units a little bit.
The dwarven guardsman is mostly good at blocking tight areas and they excel against calvary units.
Orcish assasins are tricky, maybe you should try attacking them with poachers or bandits, they have far more attacks than assasins, assasins are vulnerable to melee units, especially those with multiple attacks.
That's all I can think of, hope it helps!

enclave
Posts: 769
Joined: December 15th, 2007, 8:52 am

Re: Any tips on knalgan defense?

Post by enclave » June 14th, 2018, 1:34 pm

same here, I'm not a veteran player, specially when we talk about ladder type of maps. And to be honest knalgan are considered as possibly most unpreferred faction for such maps, but many people manage to do well :)
1) There is a replay server, where you can find games and watch replays on how other people do: http://replays.wesnoth.org/1.14/
(this is for 1.14 wesnoth version, but if you change number to 1.12 then you can use 1.12 replays from many previous years too, although you would NEED to download older wesnoth 1.12 too). To watch replay download save files to your savegame folder (on windows it is about here: C:\Users\Admin\Documents\My Games\Wesnoth1.14\saves ), and then open wesnoth and hit "Load" and tick "show replay".
2) This is a ladder webpage, where strongest players compete against each other and leave replays of their wins http://wesnoth.gamingladder.info/ (just go to "game history"), you can again download them and watch how others performed as dwarws...like I said many skilled players can use knalga very well.
3) My personal opinion... You probably must have birds.. they are fast and have strong retaliation damage, this is what you might use to block bad terrains if needed. I hate birds myself, on isar i would never use them, but for ladder I think this is a must. 2 birds and you can move them from one side to another when needed.. and to protect far away villages i would probably use footpads, they have 70% defense so sometimes it may take enemy a while to kill them and time of day may change.. they are very very quick to go anywhere.. of course with bad RNG they may die with 1st attack.. but that's what wesnoth is..
against assassins I wouldnt use any counter at all, dont let them hit you or have ulf in reach so he can kill it, so enemy would think twice to use it or not, or at least wouldnt be able to use it twice, 3 times, 4 times..
ideally you would just retreat when you see enemy units are overwhelming and the time of day is going to change not in your favor, before enemy can even hit.. if you have strong powers then just have ulfserker in range to kill assasin and not allow enemy to do any damage.. thiefs maybe only work against drakes at night in my experience, so i think it's a waste of time to use them on orcs. Ulf might be a very good unit to retake lost villages, with support of birds and other units... generally if you manage to hit hard at day the chaotic enemy will not try to retaliate, because the time of day is not in his favor... so if u use ulf to kick enemy out of village and then cover with something like even footpad, you are safe..

Well... too much talking from me :) my best advice is listen to my advice #1 and #2 :D forget my personal opinion :D

Computer_Player
Posts: 106
Joined: March 16th, 2008, 6:39 am

Re: Any tips on knalgan defense?

Post by Computer_Player » June 15th, 2018, 1:03 am

Jike wrote:
June 13th, 2018, 1:42 pm
Hello to everyone, lately I have been trying to learn how to play knalgans, although I have been struggling to perform well.

The one thing I find myself struggling the most with is organizing a proper defense, which is more often than not what I'll have to fall back into against most matchups

Dwarf units are considerably more reliable at defense when on forts, hills or mountains, although said terrain types are often scarce and spread out, leaving plenty of gaps for the enemy to bypass them and move to steal rear villages, this problem is intensified when you add the fact that dwarves are expensive and lack in mobility, which means they are more likely to leave gaps (specially when forced to stand on isolated hill/fort/mountain tiles), and that the outlaw units are considerably squishier, making them unsuitable for filling said gaps, even if they have more defense while doing it and are easily susceptible to swarming.
When playing dwarves, because of their low mobility, proper positioning is imperative. As much as possible you want them positioned at the points that the enemy has to attack i.e. vils or the pathways thereof. This also means you want to have as much information about the enemy as possible in order to avoid blindspots. This means getting footpad or even Gryphon depending on the map to scout out the enemy. Dwarves are good at holding ground, but also remember that even they have limits and you shouldn't generally try to hold ground vs a day loyalist army for example. Retreat taking into account your mobility.
That brings me to another problem, swarming, with the enemy being easily able to bypass my line to steal my rear villages, I'm forced to bring my dwarves out of their preferred terrain to stop them, which often exposes them enough that they can easily get surronded and killed, and more often than not I will not be able to commit enough strength to stop the village stealer without also exposing my front villages, or being forced to place an outlaw in them, which can still be surrounded and killed, then the village taken, it happens way too often that my opponent easily surrounds my units then kills them, If I retaliate, it often is never enough to keep my opponent from having a gold advantage, this cycle tends to repeat in my games until my opponent wins
Why is that dwarf alone in defending that front line? You should have enough units such that attempts at bypassing will be punished severely.
Next is the proper usage of the dwarf guardsman, while good for holding a specific tile, he isn't much of a threatening unit, and the enemy more often than not can just ignore it and go for the rest of my units while taking little damage from the guardsman, am I looking at this the wrong way?
Guardsman is best at holding vils. This means that you could delay an enemy attack on a front for a few turns just by parking a guardsman in the vil that is in threat. However efficiency wise they are not as good compared to other dwarves due to the points you have mentioned. This is a strategic choice that you will have to make.
Last point I can think from the top of my head, orcish assassins, they are way too effective at disrupting my defense with heir poison, and more often than not I don't have enough units or tight enough space to organize a proper rotation as I've seen most people suggest, to top it off most hill tiles are often next to forest tiles, which the assassin can exploit more often than not, I could place a poacher in said tiles, but it would more often than not expose them too much, giving the enemy a free kill.
If you're holding ground against orcs at night, you did something wrong. Also berzerkers are great at killing assassins (also backstabbing thieves cost wise)
The combination of the above points almost always leads to my defeat, my fate being marked the moment the first village is stolen, I feel I need to be really cautious, but excessive cautiouness often gives my opponent the advantage, I seriously need a paradgim shift and I don't know where is the best way to start, any help will be appreciated.
Don't be scared, you should be mounting an offense too! Dwarves also excel at counter attack / creeping movement. Let's play a game if you see me, I'll try to point out stuff

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