I need advice on my computer's configuration

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Poison
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Re: I need advice on my computer's configuration

Post by Poison » November 11th, 2017, 3:46 pm

Again, better cpu, there are even some 2th generation pentiums that are performing similarly with i3 (from like 20 years ago), newer doesn't mean better. Regarding RAM or GPU there shouldn't be a problem, 2GB of RAM won't bottleneck for videos and internet, even if the system will use 1.5 GB (unlikely) the remaining 500 MB are more than enough for the GPU to handle HD videos.

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Re: I need advice on my computer's configuration

Post by Naron » November 11th, 2017, 8:49 pm

Then something is not right, you say that my Pentium G2030 is not better than the Core 2 Duo E6850, for example? Then is the increase of the CPU performance more a marketing-induced illusion than a real increase?

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Re: I need advice on my computer's configuration

Post by GunChleoc » November 12th, 2017, 7:13 pm

Many programs can't handle multiple cores, so the base speed is still important for them.

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Re: I need advice on my computer's configuration

Post by Naron » November 10th, 2018, 2:27 pm

In the light of recent news regarding the flaws of Intel CPUs, would it be wise to switch to AMD? I might have the opportunity to buy an AMD CPU a Phenom II X4 B95 3 GHz and a mobo at almost nothing, but I'm not sure if I should do it. Some advice would be very welcome.

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Re: I need advice on my computer's configuration

Post by Pentarctagon » November 10th, 2018, 4:24 pm

Most of the flaws aren't intel-specific, and really all of them aren't the kind of thing individual people on their own PCs need to worry about(unless you work for the NSA or something).
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

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Re: I need advice on my computer's configuration

Post by enclave » November 10th, 2018, 4:53 pm

Naron wrote:
November 11th, 2017, 3:03 pm
How come that, an old kit with fewer RAM memory and worse integrated graphics was performing better than the newer Sempron 2650 kit with 4 GB RAM and better integrated graphics? Unbelievably to me.
How would you explain this? I'm really curious.
Ok.. first thing you need to use when chosing the CPU is this web page: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/midlow_range_cpus.html
what that web page does, it shows the testing of performance of different CPUs.. this is for upgrading, if you want better speeds...
So here is your Sempron 2650 with score 939 (https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... PU&id=2214)
Your Intel Core2 Duo E6850 with score 1949 (https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... GHz&id=943)
Your old pentium D with score 535 (https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... Hz&id=1125)

Now I have no idea why they given Sempron so high score of 939, to me it seems absalutely impossible that 1.5 Ghz would be better than 2.7 Ghz with same number of cores (it's unreal, no matter how old or new the CPU is, it's just bulltish)

The core2 duo is 2-4 times better than Pentium D according to scores, but in real life I don't think you would see a massive improvement over Pentium D (if you see it maybe because you reinstalled the system, so it's clean from all kind of crap, defragmented drive so it obviously runs much faster at first, until you mess it with different software, antivirus, broken registers etc)

I think you could look for something like Q6600 (https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... 40+2.40GHz) there is a CHANCE that it is compatible with your old motherboard from your old pentium D . This has slower Ghz than even Pentium D but it has 4 cores, I believe you will win from that, although some games may run slower because of that lower Ghz speed (single core speed), but it would improve the system overall... more programs would work better at same time.. kind of..

only saying Q6600 because these days it probably cost around 20$ used one.. and there is a CHANCE that you can put it inside your old motherboard without new motherboard. Although it's only a chance.. most likely it won't work in it.. but then you could again buy motherboard for q6600 which would also be cheap and u would be able to fit your old components there, because its basically same as your old pentium d's

buying SSD drive for your system would probably have same impact as upgrading CPU.. i think Pentium D with SSD would run similarily good as Q6600 with hard drive.. most probably.. where SSD is more expensive buy than q6600... these days u can buy new SSD for 240gb around 45$, so 120GB would be similar to Q6600 price.. and would be enough to hold windows or linux or whatever u do.. While SSD would for sure improve Windows performance, i don't have linux experience with it, so cant guarantee it has same massive impact on system.

If you are for saving electricity bills then of course sempron is better (25 watts.. is what, 4 times less than 95W...). If you happy with your core 2 duo, its also cool, coz its 65W, u get improved performance and improved dollar saving...

In short:
a) never expect that 1.5 Ghz can run something faster than 2.6 Ghz, with same number of cores it's like impossible...
b) keep in mind that intel cores may be better than AMD cores (in old processors) as each intel core MIGHT have 2 threads.. so it will actually be equal to AMD 2 cores... so Intel 2 core = AMD 4 core... kind of.. depends on processor line. And intel also may have hyperthreading.. etc etc
c) i dont think that old graphics built into processor is any much better than discrete graphics.. separate video card will always be better
d) RAM doesnt mean improved performance.. it depends what your system consumes... 2gb may be same as 4gb... plus windows uses some HARD drive space to replace missing RAM, it's slower but maybe not so noticably slower, depends on sistuations..
e) you need to find your system bottleneck... which of the components performs slower than the other ones... it maybe that if you just upgraded your video card you would perform much better... or solid state drive would improve things dramatically.. or it's CPU that slowing things down (I dont think so, in your case it's definitly either hard drive, or video card), or maybe u dont have enough RAM to run all applications (not your case either looks like)

And if you really want something good, dont ask here... it's not hardware dedicated forum.. we are amateur people here.. find some forum that is dedicated to hardware etc... where professionals would give you better advices... explain your budget etc..

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Re: I need advice on my computer's configuration

Post by Naron » November 10th, 2018, 5:59 pm

@enclave, this is an old discussion and my current CPU is a Pentium G2030 but thanks for explanations. I'm aware that this forum is not for hardware enthusiasts but I'm hoping that there is someone more knowledgeable on that matter, so that is why I'm asking here.
BTW, according to the site you mentioned, the AMD B95 has a score of 3702 and the Pentium G2030 has a score of 2875 so it seems that AMD's CPU would be slightly better than my current CPU. And I do plan to buy a SSD somewhere in the future, I'm really curios how would the system run with a SSD.

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Re: I need advice on my computer's configuration

Post by enclave » November 11th, 2018, 4:27 am

Ah yeah, sorry I didn't notice the second page somehow..

My wife has a very similar to B95 CPU (AMD Phenom II X4 955), no problems with it and i'm sure she can run hd videos etc.. really anything that a "user" may need without any slow downs.. but she also has SSD and a relatevely good old video card.. I wouldn't call it any near the high end gaming processor... but i'm sure it can handle most things that anyone need who doesnt do high end gaming.. for example I have AMD FX-6100 Six-Core (much higher in ranking) but I can not see any difference between these 2 processors... i wouldnt feel the difference watching a movie.. or playing a game, i'm quite sure about it..
to feel the difference the CPU probably should have double the score..

So buying B95 or not I would have 2 questions for it... a) how much is nearly nothing? b) what you need it for?

So question number one..
1) Nearly nothing.. what alternative you could buy for nearly nothing..
G2030 ( https://ark.intel.com/products/74749/In ... -3-00-GHz- ) is a low end dual core intel processor.. yeah it's worse than Phenom II X4 B95
BUT, it is intel Ivy bridge ( https://ark.intel.com/products/codename ... Ivy-Bridge ) which means that you most likely can buy any CPU from this list and put it into your motherboard without any problems and it will work. Also you can buy CPU from previous generation Sandy Bridge and it will also work (list here: https://ark.intel.com/products/codename ... ndy-Bridge ). All these use the socket 1155, so you have million of intel CPU options for upgrade...
****for example Intel Core i7-3770 @ 3.40GHz (a score of 9291 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... GHz&id=896 ) so is about 3 times better than g2030. Could handle some heavy games too I'm sure.. Your video card will just not be able to pull it most probably.
Second hand could be bought for 100-130$ (depends on your country i guess)
G2030 was released after i7-3770 so its a huge chance that it will work in your motherboard... without need to update BIOS, so no extra worries.. just see your motherboard specifications before buying to confirm that it works. but in my amateur opinion it should run no problems. maybe you would just need to change the CPU cooler and fan on your CPU because you are going from 55W to 77W (so more heat is generated)
Ok if that is more expensive than nothing, lets go down to more budget choices... plus there may be no point to buy that expensive CPU if you dont do high end gaming and if your video card won't let you play them anyway (just great CPU is not enough... need to have all components up to the job)
*****another example i5-3570 (passmark score 7,106) still 2 times better than your G2030... and this one I bought myself second hand for around 60$ a year ago.. to build a pc for my father.. so could expect to pay for it 50$ now i guess.. depends on your country..
*****very popular example from previous generation is i5-2500 (if it's cheaper in your contry u can even get that one.. score is 6,329 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... GHz&id=803 ) so still 2 times better than yours..
It probably costs even less now... 30-50$... the disadvantage is that it has 95W power consumption... maybe worse built-in graphics too.. if it matters..
(some basic comparison of i5-2500 and i5-3570 here: http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/419/In ... -3570.html )

Well if somebody offers you Phenom II X4 B95 for less than what you could buy any of these CPUs then get Phenom II, its better than G2030... true.. but you could also save money to later get i7 and put it in your board and it will fly.. your board is super great for upgrading.. just make sure you check compatibility on manufacturer webside before you buy upgrade (especially if you can't return it). Or ask on professional forum for them to confirm that it will work in your board. But from my amateur point of view everything will work as described above, just make sure you improve your cooling if you go for 95W CPU. Make sure the board supports 95W processors (normaly it always does, but who knows... miracles happen too.. I have no idea what your motherboard is, you never specified.. but based on my amateur knowledge it should work fine with i7-3770, or i5-3570 or i5-2500 or other less powerful ones if you like.. just chose from the list of CPUs from sandy birdges or ivy bridges, your G2030 was released in Q2'13 which means 2nd quarter of 2013, so your motherboard BIOS is likely to support any processor released before 2nd quarter of 2013 without need to flash/update BIOS. For example i7-3770 is Q2'12 which is 2012 so it should work in your motherboard with your version of BIOS no problem at all)

2) question number 2 is what you need it all for...? Just to feel that your computer is faster? Phenom would be faster, but you would not feel anything huge... to feel the difference u probably need the score of at least double of yours..
That's why I have my FX-6100 and I dont upgrade to i7-3770, I know there won't be much difference... and in my case if I wanted to play high end game I would spend more on graphics card probably.. because I think both CPU would be able to handle heavy game.. but graphics card would be my bottleneck.. I don't think Phenom is much different from FX-6100 either.. its a strong processor... but it all depends what you want it for... and to feel the difference you need really more than that..
if you just want to feel difference, buy SSD drive... you will feel the difference.. if you just buy i7-3770 maybe you wont feel much difference either.. without having proper fast SSD drive either.. if you want super high end games you will need video card... CPU won't help you there alone..

Sooo... if they offer Phenom for more than 50$ i think its not great idea.. you can do same thing with just buying second hand i5-3570 (see if you can buy it first in your country for 50$, maybe in yours they more expensive i dont know). Later you can sell it and buy i7-3770... Better spend 50$ on SSD, but I think stick to the brand with warranty (kingston, toshiba, samsung, wd.. popular brands), dont buy second hand, who knows why they selling it.. there is no reason to sell SSD except if it's faulty probably.. second hand CPU is normal, it's rarely broken, if it works then it most probably works fine.. but SSD may give errors that u don't notice until your data is corrupted and it's too late.. and some time later buy new CPU from the list.. i5 or i7.. SSD all same, just chose the cheapest... 240gb would be optimal choice... use it for windows and store your music and videos on hard drive.
I think you will notice more improved speeds with SSD than if you upgrade to Phenom... but it's only my amateur opinion.. ask same question on some professional forum... specify your motherboard name.. they could give more professional advice..

just noticed your country is Romania.. yeah I guess it's much harder to trust buying second hand things there, unless it's your friend is selling it.. or if it's a proper PC shop.. I hope you find your way ;)

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Re: I need advice on my computer's configuration

Post by Naron » November 11th, 2018, 10:55 am

I will try to answer your questions:

1. Well, a friend wants to scrap his old PC and sell the components and he said that he would sell me the CPU and the mobo for 100 RON (that would be like ~ 24$) and of course these will not have any warranty but the components are functional, I tested them. Also, in my country, we have quite a few second hand computer shops which also offer some kind of warranty (typically 6 months - 1 year). I can buy an Intel Core i5 2300 for 180 RON (~44$) from such a shop and it will have some warranty and it will probably work on my current motherboard. So, I'm not sure what to choose: the AMD kit which is cheaper but also without any warranty or the Intel CPU which is a bit more expensive but it does have a warranty attached.

2. Why do I need a "new" CPU for? Because I want to try a few newer games (from 2012-2014) and these do not run well on my current CPU. My graphics card is an AMD Radeon HD 8490 with 1 GB VRAM. I know, this is an old GPU but the bottleneck seems to be the CPU, not the GPU so that's why I'm talking about a "new" CPU.

So, that's my story and thanks again for your time.

Edit: I already specified my mobo on the first page, it's a Gigabyte GA-H61M-S1.

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Re: I need advice on my computer's configuration

Post by enclave » November 11th, 2018, 4:14 pm

Naron wrote:
November 11th, 2018, 10:55 am
Edit: I already specified my mobo on the first page, it's a Gigabyte GA-H61M-S1.
Ah ok, I thought it was from your old pentium D so i didnt even open it. thanks.
Naron wrote:
November 11th, 2018, 10:55 am
1. Well, a friend wants to scrap his old PC and sell the components and he said that he would sell me the CPU and the mobo for 100 RON (that would be like ~ 24$) and of course these will not have any warranty but the components are functional, I tested them.
a) for 24 I think it's a good deal, it's worth it, I don't think i could buy these here so cheap. would take some time to hunt that for such price. Just keep your old motherboard, don't sell it.. you can later sell your AMD and buy some good intel CPU (remove the CMOS little round battery when you plan to store motherboard without use for long time.. they may leak or just lose charge and then you will think that your Mobo is broken after storing and trying to make it work again, just put new 3v battery next time you want to switch it on (maybe write on piece of paper that u need a battery or you may forget it and then you will be wondering why it doesnt work))
b) you said you tested the componenets, does it mean that it runs the games that you were willing to play? because from my point of view there is no guarantee that this CPU will be any better with same video card and RAM.
Naron wrote:
November 11th, 2018, 10:55 am
2. Why do I need a "new" CPU for? Because I want to try a few newer games (from 2012-2014) and these do not run well on my current CPU. My graphics card is an AMD Radeon HD 8490 with 1 GB VRAM. I know, this is an old GPU but the bottleneck seems to be the CPU, not the GPU so that's why I'm talking about a "new" CPU.
could you specify exactly the names of games, the amount of RAM on both motherboards and video card on both motherboards?
for now if I understand correctly you have 4gb ddr3 RAM and Radeon HD 8490 (that's what you would use on both motherboards before and after upgrade it's not changed right?) Found your video card: https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/midl ... _gpus.html
( https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu. ... 90&id=2841 ) could be worse.. it's not extremely ancient video card.. it's of course not great but not super bad. If you plan to upgrade it in future I would recommend not to buy anything below 1000-2000 scores in passmark, or it won't be worth upgrading... but it depends on what exactly you plan to do with it..
most games will have minimal system requirements.. look how your computer would compare to these.. maybe it's RAM that is the problem.. it's possible..

For 24$ if you are that it will play your games it would be a good buy I think..
Difference from itel CPU would be that you would need to reinstall windows as it's new motherboard.. if you not worried about that then it's cool.
The warranty or not it doesn't matter, if everything works fine now then it normally will work fine for a long time.. if you don't damage anything during installation or not overheat, overclock.. the CPU is usually bulletproof, so you rarely see them die for no reason. But the motherboard may fail.. so you have to decide yourself if you can risk it or not.. motherboard failure may be unpredictable and not depend on use (although if it worked for many years fine then it should work fine further, if there are solid capacitors on it, otherwise they tend to fail (cheap and easy to replace, but still a pain in the a** when somethign breaks), so you could look how much similar motherboard costs you to be replaced if it fails (and reason is not capacitors but expensive north/south bridge or CPU transistors).. if its 10$ then it's still cheaper than buying intel as far as I understand..

if you plan to sell your motherboard when you upgrade to phenom, then i don't think it's good idea.. you can upgrade your motherboard very nicely (the disadvantage is only 2 slots of RAM, but you can still put 8gb in each if you want... and it makes 16gb... so you really can turn your motherboard into hardcore machine with i7-3770.. without buying new motherboard. The other disadvantage of this motherboard is that it is SATA 2, not SATA 3, so SSD will not run on full speed with it, but experts forum says that it's still worth using SSD on sata2, it's still much faster: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/i ... -sata.html (I think difference won't be noticable with sata 2, but not 100% sure)

well.. actually if you buy phenom and sell your system then your upgrade was nearly free... so it's something to consider.. so it's really up to you.. later you can always do same upgrade from phenom to something else... also nice if your phenom motherboard has more RAM slots (4 slots), then you could later buy extra RAM sticks.. to add to it.. coz 1GB, 2GB sticks are much cheaper than 4GB or 8GB

Yeah it's not easy to decide... but I think:
a) Phenom is better so its clearly an upgrade
b) if it plays the games you want, then for 24$ it's definitly worth it. you can't upgrade cheaper than that most probably..
c) if phenom motherboard has 4 RAM slots then it's advantage too (cheap opportunity to add more RAM later if needed.. 4GB that you have is a bit... on the limit.. if you plan gaming)

d) you can't upgrade phenom to anything else really... maybe Phenom II X6 (if motherboard supports the 125 Watts CPUs, AMDs motherboards usually specify the wattage on them). Very big chance that for next upgrade you would need to change motherboard (look for mobo wattage.. if it's of an importance)

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Re: I need advice on my computer's configuration

Post by Naron » November 11th, 2018, 5:19 pm

The games that I want to play are: Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2, Wasteland 2 and Divinity Original Sin. My computer's configuration is now: Pentium G2030, 4 GB RAM, Radeon HD 8490 and Windows 7 x64/Debian 9. I can run some of the aforementioned games on this configuration but they're horribly slow and the others require a quad core CPU so they're unplayable.
How I tested the Phenom kit? I ran some test and stress programs on the Phenom system and the results were all good and it ran Pillars of Eternity much better than my machine. Yes, the Phenom mobo has 4 RAM slots so it's indeed an advantage as the higher capacity RAM sticks are quite expensive. In fact, my friend also said that he will give me 2 GB DDR3 for free if I buy this kit.
So I might do something like this: buy the Phenom kit (CPU+mobo) and keep all the other components from my system so that the final configuration would be: CPU Phenom B95, 6 GB DDR 3, Radeon HD 8490 and of course I will have to reinstall Windows 7 but this does not bother me as I use Windows only for gaming.
It would be quite a good deal, would it be not? But I'm still tempted to have an Core i5 or i7 so I will follow your advice and keep my Gigabyte mobo so that I can buy such a CPU in the future and install it on my mobo. So, thanks a lot for your advice, you helped me decide what to do.

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Re: I need advice on my computer's configuration

Post by enclave » November 11th, 2018, 11:50 pm

no problem, I hope it works well for you :)
keep in mind that 3 sticks of RAM may not work together, most of the time it's either 1 slot or 2 slots or 4 slots... (3 RAM sticks usually work in specially designed motherboards that only have 3 slots and RAM is running in kind of triple channel to increase performance..)
so don't panic IF you put 3 sticks of RAM into phenom motherboard and see black screen and nothing happening.. it will mean that your motherboard can not run 3 slots of RAM.. so you would need to either remove 1 stick of RAM or buy 1 more stick of RAM (even if it's 1GB instead of 2GB it most probably will work, i don't think I ever seen 512mb ddr3 sticks... so 1GB is probably minimum/cheapest u can get for ddr3 ram..).
I would recommend to find some youtube video about RAM.. there are different types of RAM.. yes they all DDR3, but they run at different speeds, there are different timings and different voltages.. so when you mix 3-4 different RAM sticks you may get something you don't really want or they may not run together at all.. it's usually recommended to have all 4 ram sticks exactly same brand, speed, size etc.. but I often mixed them, there is no really big deal about it.. as long as they work together, it should be fine.. worst thing might be if you have some RAM sticks 1.65 volts, and other 1.35 volts (tipical for DDR3 is 1.5 volts.), I don't know what would happen if you mix 1.65 and 1.35 volts.. it depends on motherboard.. on ram sticks.. on God maybe.. possibly in this case 1.35 volts would run at 1.65volts, which would be a big overclocking... maybe more than sticks can handle. Or 1.65 volts sticks would run under 1.35 volts which would mean they run at lower speeds etc... or God knows what could be ;) keep it in mind when you play with RAM sticks later :D

I hope 3 sticks of ram will work together on your new phenom system and most probably they all standard 1.5 volt etc.. so nothing to worry about.. just don't panic if something doesn't run at first.. it's possible with RAM sometimes... try move sticks to different slots... watch youtube video (but find a good one.. one that will talk about 3 sticks of ram combination, timings, voltages...)

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Re: I need advice on my computer's configuration

Post by GunChleoc » November 12th, 2018, 8:40 am

Before you buy new RAM, also check out the spec for the motherboard to see if the manufacturer is recommending specific RAM models. Those will have been tested with the motherboard.

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