Default Plus Era

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Default Plus Era

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » August 18th, 2012, 1:47 am

This is an extension of the default era that includes most of the core units not available in the default era and a number of units from mainline campaigns, with some custom units to flesh out the advancement trees a little. It also has a number of additional factions, most of which are remixes of the default factions to focus more on a single race (for example, "Wood Elves" or "Merfolk"). Currently there are 18 factions in total.

I haven't worked on balancing anything at this point; some factions are almost certainly a lot weaker than the rest. It's still a work in progress somewhat; there are still a number of plans and ideas for further expansion (though nothing drastic). I'm considering including the Steelhive and Khalifate factions; I may consider adding other factions as long as they're standalone factions rather than part of an era (for example, there will be no Dalefolk from Era of Four Moons or Devlings from Era of Myths included in this era; if that's what you want, try Ageless Era).

As of this post, version 0.1 is on the add-ons server. In addition to "Default++", it includes an "Age of Heroes++". The AoH++ version allows recruiting the level 1 unit in lines that are normally leader-only (for example, the Sergeant). Generally speaking, core units were left unchanged while units from mainline campaigns were sometimes tweaked. All units have additional AMLAs as well, though currently they need two or three health boosts first.

Current list of factions:
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Re: Default Plus Era

Postby Faerie_Storm » August 21st, 2012, 3:05 am

Update on the addons server with the latest version which is 0.1.3
Minor revisions as well as new graphics have been added.

The merged change log is as follows:
Spoiler:
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Re: Default Plus Era

Postby Dwarven_Void » September 1st, 2012, 10:27 pm

I tried you era, and it was good. I have a couple of criticisms:

-Why would anyone choose wood elves over rebels? Fewer, and less varied recruit, not to mention less magic. Maybe reduce the number of elven units available?
-Trolls are useless with only 2 recruits. I recommend following TEG's footsteps, and having a level 1 shaman (you can take sprite from there). Alternative, you can have a "Cave dwellers" faction - trolls, spiders, bats etc
-Giant ants are hideous overpriced. 12 gold gets you a unit with 6-2 attack and 22hp. An elvish fighter (14 gold) is 6-4 and 36 hp. I know where my money is placed...
-Instead of recruiting gryphons, take a young gryphon (from TsoG or A Gryphon's tale) and use that. It feels more "right" than a gryphon, and decreases the number of level 2 units on the battle
-Finally, don't allow Yeti's to be leaders. An 80 gold leader is such a massive advantage over a 30 gold leader (which is what everyone else is likely to have)

It's a nice era though, for all that it needs work.
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Re: Default Plus Era

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » September 2nd, 2012, 3:26 am

Dwarven_Void wrote:-Why would anyone choose wood elves over rebels? Fewer, and less varied recruit, not to mention less magic. Maybe reduce the number of elven units available?
I'm a little unsure what you mean by that last sentence. The wood elves do have two units (Civilian and Hunter) that the Rebels do not, as I recall, though I can see how that may not be enough. (In particular they, like several other factions, lack a good water or flying unit.)

Dwarven_Void wrote:-Trolls are useless with only 2 recruits. I recommend following TEG's footsteps, and having a level 1 shaman (you can take sprite from there). Alternative, you can have a "Cave dwellers" faction - trolls, spiders, bats etc
Yeah, I want more trolls. First I need to find graphics for them that I like, though. I'm not sure I like the idea of including spiders with them, though bats I suppose I could see. I was also going to include the yeti.

Dwarven_Void wrote:-Giant ants are hideous overpriced. 12 gold gets you a unit with 6-2 attack and 22hp. An elvish fighter (14 gold) is 6-4 and 36 hp. I know where my money is placed...
Noted. Do you have a recommended price to use instead?

Dwarven_Void wrote:-Instead of recruiting gryphons, take a young gryphon (from TsoG or A Gryphon's tale) and use that. It feels more "right" than a gryphon, and decreases the number of level 2 units on the battle
A good idea; I certainly do want to get rid of the level 2 recruits as much as possible. (Is TsoG = The Soujournings of Grog?)

Dwarven_Void wrote:-Finally, don't allow Yeti's to be leaders. An 80 gold leader is such a massive advantage over a 30 gold leader (which is what everyone else is likely to have)
This isn't going to change per se, but we had some vague plans to create a whole yeti line, so once that's done you'd get a level 2 or 3 yeti for your leader (for default/AoH respectively). Of course, it sort of needs more graphics; simply shrinking the existing yeti graphic probably isn't enough.
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Re: Default Plus Era

Postby Dwarven_Void » September 2nd, 2012, 8:37 am

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:I'm a little unsure what you mean by that last sentence. The wood elves do have two units (Civilian and Hunter) that the Rebels do not, as I recall, though I can see how that may not be enough. (In particular they, like several other factions, lack a good water or flying unit.)


I would recommend giving the rebels only one or two elven units (maybe just the fight + archer). Also, IfTU & AtS have level one elven "Ascetics" which boil down to being L1 elven magic for the wood elves. You could also consider letting the WE's recruit falcons (also in IftU) which kinda makes sense, and improves the faction a lot.
Celtic_Minstrel wrote:Yeah, I want more trolls. First I need to find graphics for them that I like, though. I'm not sure I like the idea of including spiders with them, though bats I suppose I could see. I was also going to include the yeti.

I suggest you don't use the Yeti too much. It's big, it crushes everything, and I can't think of a reason why it would be allied with trolls.

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:Noted. Do you have a recommended price to use instead?

7, and drop the giant rat to 5 (it's really no better than the mudcrawler, which is also 5)

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:A good idea; I certainly do want to get rid of the level 2 recruits as much as possible. (Is TsoG = The Soujournings of Grog?)

Yes

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:This isn't going to change per se, but we had some vague plans to create a whole yeti line, so once that's done you'd get a level 2 or 3 yeti for your leader (for default/AoH respectively). Of course, it sort of needs more graphics; simply shrinking the existing yeti graphic probably isn't enough.

Well, if you get that working, great.
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Re: Default Plus Era

Postby taptap » September 2nd, 2012, 11:22 am

This era is completely unbalanceable with current MP maps, because you have many terrain dependent factions. Unless you publish dedicated unsymmetric maps it simply isn't possible to balance e.g. wood elves vs. merfolk where one side is exclusively water dependent and the other has no unit able to go through water. I guess it can be fun in survivals or so, but it definitely doesn't look balanceable for normal multiplayer.
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Re: Default Plus Era

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » September 2nd, 2012, 3:32 pm

Dwarven_Void wrote:I would recommend giving the rebels only one or two elven units (maybe just the fight + archer). Also, IfTU & AtS have level one elven "Ascetics" which boil down to being L1 elven magic for the wood elves. You could also consider letting the WE's recruit falcons (also in IftU) which kinda makes sense, and improves the faction a lot.
I like the idea of the falcons; would the khalifate falcon be acceptable though? I don't know how it compares to the IftU falcon. Using the ascetic line also sounds like a good idea.

Dwarven_Void wrote:I can't think of a reason why it would be allied with trolls.
I dunno, it seems vaguely troll-like somehow.

taptap wrote:This era is completely unbalanceable with current MP maps, because you have many terrain dependent factions. Unless you publish dedicated unsymmetric maps it simply isn't possible to balance e.g. wood elves vs. merfolk where one side is exclusively water dependent and the other has no unit able to go through water. I guess it can be fun in survivals or so, but it definitely doesn't look balanceable for normal multiplayer.
I'm not worried too much about the merfolk, to be honest. I don't want to get rid of the faction, but I understand that it would be pretty much impossible to balance with respect to any of the other factions on any of the default maps. If I can get all the factions other than merfolk (and perhaps monster lovers) to a state where they are at least not horribly unbalanced, I think that would be enough.
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Re: Default Plus Era

Postby Dwarven_Void » September 2nd, 2012, 7:17 pm

The khalifate flacon is a much better idea. Go for that.

Also, having run through again, giving desert elves acess to scorpions, and maybe cactoses (TSoG again) would greatly improve them.

As a way to balance the merfolk, (wild idea here) maybe they have recognised the fact that they are rubbish on land, an hired mercenaries? Maybe they can recruit hired khalifate soldiers, which would make them instantly more playable. Not all of them, maybe just the Arif, the Jundi, and the naffat. That would help.
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Re: Default Plus Era

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » September 8th, 2012, 9:09 pm

Uploaded version 0.2 to the add-ons server.

Changelog:


I'm not sure I like the idea of the merfolk hiring Khalifate mercenaries. In fact, I don't personally feel a need for the merfolk to be balanced with respect to the default maps; for me, it's more of an outlier for special situations, such as ocean or swamp maps.

I saw cactoses somewhere and didn't particularly like them, so I probably won't use them. Giving scorpions to desert elves might be okay; I'll think about it.
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