Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

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Telchin
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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » June 19th, 2018, 4:39 pm

Good news everyone! :eng: Version 1.5.1 released. Thanks to tamanegi's help I've updated Czech and Japanese translation. Tell me if there are any errors in them.
Bad news: I still haven't figured where the problem with units.wesnoth.org is.

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » June 28th, 2018, 5:08 pm

Sorry fo the double post, but I have few anouncements. Not only Inky's Quest reached 200 downloades on the 1.14 server (not really an achievement given that some add-ons already have thounsands downloads there), but it seems that units.wesnoth.org shows more units from the capaign than just the anglerfish. It still doesn't show them all - only those begining with A-F, so presumably there is some problem at Gargantuan Clam. If somebody knows more, your help is welcome. However, the main reason for this post is that I'm going on a vacation in Greece tomorrow, so while I'm always happy when people give some feedback I presumably won't be able to react to it in the next cca two weeks.

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Konrad2 » November 22nd, 2018, 9:41 pm

'A Water Struggle'
When a Trench Tentacle kills a merfolk or naga, the tentacle 'speaks' and comments that the killed being is tasty. I'd assume that only the Cuttlefishs and the Deep Sea Elder are supposed to do this.

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » December 5th, 2018, 7:14 pm

'A Water Struggle'
When a Trench Tentacle kills a merfolk or naga, the tentacle 'speaks' and comments that the killed being is tasty. I'd assume that only the Cuttlefishs and the Deep Sea Elder are supposed to do this.
I'm sorry for not answering earlier, but I don't check this thread as often as I once did (as evidenced by my lack of posts since June) since I consider this campaign "complete" and thus don't plan any additions (other than re-updateing it when a new stable version of BfW comes out).
Now for your question - killing enemies in that scenario gives player gold to give the player some reward for not just waiting until one the two enemy sides kills the other. I wanted the player to notice that (you can't recruit in this scenario and have only loyal units, so you don't have to pay attention to your amount of gold), hence the line explaining that the gold represents your units gaining sustenance from the enemy flesh. Therefore I wanted the line to be said regardless what your unit kills the enemy. Maybe I could change it so that if the triggering unit is a tentacle, the line would be said by Master Sea Head (as in the story they are his tentacles)? It also ocurred to me that it might be grating that the line is repetead with each slain enemy (maybe it could be one time only - the gold giving would remain repeatable). Any thoughts?

On a note unrelated to Konrad2's question: I've noticed that Inky's Quest reached over 1000 downloads. I haven't posted here in a long time (and I know that many add-ons have much more downloads), but it still means a lot to me that people are interested in this quirky creation of mine. In real life I'm a civil servant and my job is to write decisions about fines for breaking a law. As you can probably guess, those don't generate much positive feedback from their recipients, so I'm happy that another my creation can bring people joy.

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Konrad2 » December 5th, 2018, 7:40 pm

Telchin wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 7:14 pm
Now for your question - killing enemies in that scenario gives player gold to give the player some reward for not just waiting until one the two enemy sides kills the other. I wanted the player to notice that (you can't recruit in this scenario and have only loyal units, so you don't have to pay attention to your amount of gold), hence the line explaining that the gold represents your units gaining sustenance from the enemy flesh. Therefore I wanted the line to be said regardless what your unit kills the enemy. Maybe I could change it so that if the triggering unit is a tentacle, the line would be said by Master Sea Head (as in the story they are his tentacles)? It also ocurred to me that it might be grating that the line is repetead with each slain enemy (maybe it could be one time only - the gold giving would remain repeatable). Any thoughts?
Tbh, I didn't noticed that I was given gold per kill.
I'd suggest changing it to the Deep Sea Elder encouraging me on my first kill, telling me that those corpses will provide sustenance for you and your brethen, allowing you sustain more of your creatures.

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » December 5th, 2018, 8:15 pm

Tbh, I didn't noticed that I was given gold per kill.
I'd suggest changing it to the Deep Sea Elder encouraging me on my first kill, telling me that those corpses will provide sustenance for you and your brethen, allowing you sustain more of your creatures.
That's another option. Maybe a combination of those ideas is possible - first a hint by Master Sea Head, then a line by the triggering unit - but only if it's a cuttlefish (and not after repeated kills). I'll think about it it, but it might take severl days before I upload the result.

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » December 6th, 2018, 6:57 pm

I wasn't as slow as I anticipated and thus published version 1.5.2 on the server! The messages after killing each enemy were replaced with one-time message from Master Sea Head as suggested by Konrad2. (This also means that the existing translations are bit outdated) I've kept the original messages out of nostalgia, but they'll happen one-time only and only if the killing unit is a cuttlefish. I've also found (and hopefully fixed) a typo in Giant Clam's movement animation that I didn't notice earlier because the animation moves too quickly. Hopefully, I didn't break anything that was working (my WML skills are rusty after months of disuse).
What I haven't "fixed" is that there are some more events where a tentacle can speak, such as the easter egg after reaching the center of the hexagonal island in "A water Struggle". Giving player instructions on what unit to use to find such hidden surprises would ruin the whole point of having them and I didn't want to "punish" the player for finding them with a "wrong" unit. In the case of the hexagonal island in particular you're more likely to reach it with a cuttlefish anyway (as they're faster than tentacles).

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Konrad2 » February 16th, 2019, 9:53 am

Is it intended that only loyal/leader units have traits? (I only know Cuttlefish, Tentacles and Clams so far.)

EDIT:
Inky Goes Fishing
Is it intentional that 'These Bipeds are almost as tasty as fish.' is said every time I kill a human (instead of only the first time)?
sir -> Sir

The Haunted Ford
waters surrounding -> the waters surrounding
sir -> Sir (scenario objectives)

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » February 17th, 2019, 8:06 pm

Is it intended that only loyal/leader units have traits? (I only know Cuttlefish, Tentacles and Clams so far.)
It's primarily because they are race=monster and monsters don't have traits by default. I'm sure it's possible to define a custom race or redefine possible traits for individual units (and indeed many custom campaigns or eras do it), but I didn't bother, because it's my first (and so far only) campaign, so I was happy that it works at all. Also in the case of tentacles it doesn't even make sense for them to have traits (as they're supposed to be just Master Sea Head's arms, not individual characters). I still gave the "hero" characters traits to show that they're something more than your rank and file units (in Inky's his "intelligent" trait also enables him to reach his unique level 4 promotion earlier). Squiddy and Beaky are a weird case, as they're not story important (you don't lose if they die), but because they're your only quick and strong cuttlefish (as well as loyal and auto-recalled) you should keep them alive anyway. (And before you ask why I have named characters with no story importance, the names of the three starting young cuttlefish are taken from a scenario in The Rise of Wesnoth, though they're not supposed to be the same cuttlefish, as Inky's Quest happens later).

EDIT: I answered yesterday before going to bed and forgot to answer second half of Konrad2's question:
Inky Goes Fishing
Is it intentional that 'These Bipeds are almost as tasty as fish.' is said every time I kill a human (instead of only the first time)?
This is similiar to your previous question about "A Watter Struggle" - killing humans in "Inky Goes Fishing" gives gold to the player, just like killing nagas or mermen did in the first scenario. I probably could change it like I did in "A Water Struggle" (based on your feedback), but I won't have time to do so (or fix the typos you mentioned) at least until the weekend. From what I understand you are only about 1/3 in the campaign, so if you find other typos or have other questions, feel free to post them. I should probably warn you that the quality of design and writing might vary wildly between scenarios. I originally designed the campaign with only 6 scenarios and later added other based on player feedback - for example "Inky Goes Fishing" was originally the 2nd scenario and there weren't Giant Clams - "A Mussel in Distress" and the Giant Clam units were added later (I needed someone more talented to make the clam's sprite). As such some scenarios in the middle of the campaign might appear more complex than some at the end, because they were actually added later and I was more experienced when making them.

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Konrad2 » February 21st, 2019, 6:49 pm

Telchin wrote:
February 17th, 2019, 8:06 pm
From what I understand you are only about 1/3 in the campaign, so if you find other typos or have other questions, feel free to post them.
As I've started multiple campaigns in the past without finishing, I've decided to rotate between those campaigns, playing one scenario each before changing the campaign. Right now this rotation consists of about 9 campaigns (this number will reduce with time, as I finish some campaigns or run into blockers), so I'll be giving feedback around once a week (and only if there was something 'wrong' with the scenario or I noticed some bug I overlooked before).

For example, the Deep Sea Elder has a mp cost of 1 for shallow water, unlike literally every other unit I have (shallow water costs 2mp for them), which makes no sense considering he is so much bigger than the other units. :D (So maybe make shallow water cost 3mp for him?)

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » February 21st, 2019, 9:11 pm

For example, the Deep Sea Elder has a mp cost of 1 for shallow water, unlike literally every other unit I have (shallow water costs 2mp for them), which makes no sense considering he is so much bigger than the other units. :D (So maybe make shallow water cost 3mp for him?)
This is another relic of me basically learning stuff as I made it. I wanted Master Sea Head to be unable to move outside water, so I just gave him the "float" movetype used by mainline units that can move in water only (such as ships) and that movetype has movement cost 1 in shallow water. I gave Master Sea Head resistances and defenses of a cuttlefish, but I didn't think about rising his movement cost in shallow water, as I figured that not being able to move on dry land already makes him much less maneuverable than the rest of your army, so that faster movement in shallow water compensates it. The issue is that there are several scenarios in the campaign where your objective is to move him to some spot and inscreasing his movement cost might make them harder than intended (probably not by much, but I would have to test pretty much the whole campaign :hmm: ).

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Konrad2 » February 21st, 2019, 10:25 pm

If you don't mind waiting, I'll tell you my thoughts regarding those scenarios as I play them. (So far that would be only the 2nd scenario, where the Clam is caged next to deep water and you start pretty much next to deep water, so no real increase in difficulty.)

EDIT:
The Haunted Ford
I'd suggest changing the part about killing the enemy leaders into killing every Human and every Merfolk, because the leaders are not the problem (storywise). The problem is any of them surviving and telling others the truth.
At the very least change it for the humans, because you remove the lose condition 'human reaches continent' once you defeat their leader, even though his units are still alive.

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » February 22nd, 2019, 5:13 pm

If you don't mind waiting, I'll tell you my thoughts regarding those scenarios as I play them.
Waiting isn't a problem. The problem is me finding time to actually update the campaign, as after I come home from work I'm to lazy to do anything worthwile. (I don't pretend it's a valid excuse - I'm sure many other campaign creators have full-time jobs too.:oops:) I'll wait for more of your suggestions (as so far they've been reasonable) and probably won't update the campaign in the meantime. I don't promise if or when I implement your ideas - with my laziness it might be after you actually complete the whole campaign... ;)
I'd suggest changing the part about killing the enemy leaders into killing every Human and every Merfolk, because the leaders are not the problem (storywise). The problem is any of them surviving and telling others the truth.
Once again you bring up a good idea. I made it so you only have to kill the leaders because I was afraid that killing humans on land with your deep sea units would be too hard, though I often end up killing them all anyway as they can be lured to shallow water. (Storywise you can assume that any survivors are killed by the undead after you leave the ford.)
At the very least change it for the humans, because you remove the lose condition 'human reaches continent' once you defeat their leader, even though his units are still alive.
Your post made me realize a flaw in the scenario I didn't notice before - the loss condition "Human unit reaches the continent" gets deleted from scenario's objectives when you kill sir Daedry, but the event that makes you lose when human unit moves to the bottom of the map actually persists :shock: I presume that nobody realized it before because it's not likely to happen as the AI doesn't actively try to reach the mainland. I could claim that I didn't program the AI to atempt to just run straight for the bottom because it would make the scenario unnecessarily harder, but the real reason is that I didn't know how to program the AI in the first place. I probably sound like a broken record, but once again a result of me being inexperienced campaign creator. I still added the loss condition for story purposes. Starting with scenario 5 you enter a sequence of scenarios added later, so hopefully you'll find their quality better that the beginning of the campaign.

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Telchin » February 23rd, 2019, 8:16 pm

Despite my laziness mentioned in the previous post I found some time to update the campaign based on Konrad2's suggestions. Version 1.5.3 is now on the server. The main change is that in "The Haunted Ford" the objective is to kill all humans and mermen rather than just the leaders. I've tested it, so I can tell you it's playable, but I'm not sure if it's more fun that previously (the humans can retreat to villages on the land which makes them hard to kill with the units avaible to the player), so I'd like to read someone else's thoughts on the change. Note that I didn't implement Konrad2's idea to change Master Sea Head's speed in shallow water for reasons I've already mentioned on this page.

EDIT: I just realized the number of downloads has exceeded 1400. I know it's not super high milestone by Wesnoth add-on standarts, but I'm still grateful :), so take the above-mentioned update as an accidental celebration.

EDIT 2: I accidentaly posted this twice, so I deleted the extraneous post. Thanks to Konrad2 for notifying me.

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Re: Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

Post by Konrad2 » February 27th, 2019, 8:24 am

Clash of the Drakes
There are three hexes of Shallow Water the Deep Sea Elder has to cross (2 turns if he has 3mp cost and 1 turn if he has 2mp cost). So probably no increase in difficulty, as almost all of my units have to cross there anyway and are slowed down by it.

Blinded by the Mists
However, I know few -> However, I know a few
You might want to borrow the sprite/unit of the 'Mud Juggernaut' from Reign of the Lords Era (from The_Gnat). It's a level 2 mud crawler and tbh it looks cooler. :D

EDIT:
Why is 'crush' (clams) a 'blade' attack?

EDIT 2:
The Divining Pool
Fish that is killed by an attack with the plague special is raised twice (plague special + scenario special).
Globster, Kraken, Trench Hunter and the Magma Squid 'unit portraits' (that thing on the right side about the unit information) look staunched.

Since the way to the Diving Pool is shallow water, nerfing the Deep Sea Elders mp cost would make it take some more turns. But I think you can counter that by making the Poll accessible not only from the south but also from the north, west and east, cutting down a lot of the distance if you don't know in advance from where to go in.

Changing of the Guard
The Glowing Wardstone
Glow of this stone -> The glow of this stone

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