Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Prophet
20
20%
Reaper
9
9%
Scythemaster
5
5%
Shadowalker
6
6%
Shadow Prince
12
12%
Siege Troll
4
4%
Sky Goblin
2
2%
Snow Hunter
12
12%
Soul Shooter
3
3%
Swordmaster
13
13%
Troll Boulderlobber
1
1%
Warlock
8
8%
Werewolf Rider
3
3%
Zombie Rider
3
3%
 
Total votes: 101

Brilliand
Posts: 80
Joined: July 11th, 2009, 12:15 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Brilliand »

Dugi wrote:
Just that he advanced on my turn, and moved immediately after using his Penetration ability (which I think was necessary to make the second copy appear).
Do you mean that he did that movement right at the start of his turn because you have planned that movement for future turns (sent him to a hex he could not reach in that turn)? That might mean that it is not related only to 1.11.0 svn. Was this step necessary to reproduce that bug? Can you describe it even to the slightest detail (no matter how strange it would sound, I need an exact description to try to reproduce it)? Preferably also a save file?
No, he advanced on my turn, as a result of my own attack. The movement due to penetration wasn't necessary to reproduce the disappearing attacks problem, just the more glaring duplicate Efraim problem. (Actually, now I don't think it was even necessary for that - all that's required is that you move aside before some other trigger, which I thought was the start of the turn but might be a normal unit advancing).

Looking at the latest source in svn, it appears that the "post advance" event won't fire if the unit's experience or type is changed in the "advance" event (or if the unit is removed from the map). It looks like that isn't specific to 1.11, though - it appears to have been around in 1.9, and possibly much farther back than that.

I tried attaching a savegame, but apparently the forum doesn't accept extensionless attachments.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Dugi »

No, he advanced on my turn, as a result of my own attack.
So it seems to be out of my hands...
Looking at the latest source in svn, it appears that the "post advance" event won't fire if the unit's experience or type is changed in the "advance" event (or if the unit is removed from the map). It looks like that isn't specific to 1.11, though - it appears to have been around in 1.9, and possibly much farther back than that.
Like I said (long) before, they were doing some changes with advancing. It seems that they changed something, and that bug begun to manifest because of that. After some time, they found it and fixed it, but between these events, the advancing was flawed.
Because there is no way to download 1.11.0 svn, when 1.11.0 is finished, I cannot even try to replicate it, can you please place several probes there to find where/when does the unit exactly split?
I tried attaching a savegame, but apparently the forum doesn't accept extensionless attachments.
They usually have an extension (.gz). Usually if you need to upload an extensionless attachment, put it into a zip archive to give it an extension and keep it working (not all types of archives can be uploaded).
TheZ
Posts: 30
Joined: December 5th, 2012, 8:55 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by TheZ »

Firstly i would like to state this is a VERY well made campain and I truly enjoy it. I am currently using BfW 1.10.4 and i belive the latest of LoTI . I am currnetly in senario 3 just after the ice dragon awakens and you start to chase after it. While playing though i have made a small list of bugs i have noticed.

The one BIG bug that i found is in the previous level were you fight and (attempt) to kill Achellies, if Achellies is on his keep and there is a unit North and south of him and you attack him with a unit that has knockback (i did so from the Southeast) Achellies gets knocked off the map and doesnt return making the senario impossible to win. I also belive that said unit didnt acualy HIT Achellies for the knock back to work but I didnt pay much attention to it nor did i test iit though very much.

All shadowalkers (including Efraim) some how lose there magic attack when learning some combination of whirlwind and parry. but only when you learn BOTH whirlwind and parry (doesnt matter the levels put in)

Learning Parry and Whirlwind in any order causes whirlwind attack to dissaper and in some instances parry as well, i had one case were parry was a 1-0 attack with the whirlwind ability.

The main Elf caster (name escapes me atm) upon being equiped with a craffted staff that has murderlust and having known the magic sword attack has the sword merged into fairefire to create a fairy sword ranged attack that at the time I had as 40-8, this only happens for her and no other lv 5 fairy of the same class. i do not know if it works with another crafted staff as i had no other gems to make another one (muchless want another in chapter 1)

With the magic advancement of the fencer when learning the fire sword attack something caused said attack to turn ranged.

lastly this may be intented but none of the preserved liches gain "souls" when using a cone or explosion attack and they kill a unit they are not attacking, I feal that they should as they "caused the death" and they should beable to suck the soul since they caused the death.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Dugi »

I am glad you liked my campaign.

Thanks for the report about knockback, it seems I have forgotten to prevent it from knocking enemies away from the map.

The problems with advancements' special attacks are tied to a problem with reading them I have already fixed, in the version I released last week (2.4.0). It should get fixed after some time, and these units should have their attacks calculated correctly. I tried to make a shadowalker and make him get whirlwind and parry, and all his attacks seemed to be correct.

The problem that attacks like cone or whirlwind don't drain souls is intended, because of balance. Attacks with an area of effect are very strong, so getting no reward except items for their usage is making you reconsider their use. It used to be different, but people disliked its numerical results.
Brilliand
Posts: 80
Joined: July 11th, 2009, 12:15 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Brilliand »

Dugi wrote:Like I said (long) before, they were doing some changes with advancing. It seems that they changed something, and that bug begun to manifest because of that. After some time, they found it and fixed it, but between these events, the advancing was flawed.
Because there is no way to download 1.11.0 svn, when 1.11.0 is finished, I cannot even try to replicate it, can you please place several probes there to find where/when does the unit exactly split?
The piece of code that creates the "Advancing" unit appears to be all intentional (just to make sure, it only creates the "Advancing" unit if it's my turn, and does something different that I haven't examined closely when it isn't - is that what you intended? I tried reversing the condition, but that caused Efraim to vanish entirely). That event puts the correct unit in a variable named "advanced4", which as far as I can tell is only ever used in a particular "post advance" event... that doesn't fire.

I stuck a [message] tag in that "post advance" event, advanced Efraim, and played until one of my other units advanced. The message displayed, and a second Efraim promptly appeared, replacing (as in, deleting) a white mage that happened to have moved onto that spot.
I tried attaching a savegame, but apparently the forum doesn't accept extensionless attachments.
They usually have an extension (.gz). Usually if you need to upload an extensionless attachment, put it into a zip archive to give it an extension and keep it working (not all types of archives can be uploaded).[/quote]

Okay, I've attached a zip file containing two savegames: one from immediately before advancing Efraim (by killing a troll), and one from immediately after.
Dugi wrote:The problem that attacks like cone or whirlwind don't drain souls is intended, because of balance. Attacks with an area of effect are very strong, so getting no reward except items for their usage is making you reconsider their use. It used to be different, but people disliked its numerical results.
That should probably be mentioned in the LotI help somewhere, or in the description of each of those attacks. All in-game text points to Whirlwind being a killer source of XP.

Also, the "cone" attack doesn't seem particularly cone-shaped to me - it seems like it would be more cone-like for it to hit the three hexes adjacent to the defender but not the attacker. :p

EDIT: Okay, I compiled Wesnoth 1.11.0 (the actual distributed version, I think, or at least the SVN revision tagged as such), and the problem happened exactly the same on that version (using the same savefile).
Attachments
LotI1-Gods-Auto-Save22.zip
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Dugi »

The piece of code that creates the "Advancing" unit appears to be all intentional (just to make sure, it only creates the "Advancing" unit if it's my turn, and does something different that I haven't examined closely when it isn't - is that what you intended? I tried reversing the condition, but that caused Efraim to vanish entirely). That event puts the correct unit in a variable named "advanced4", which as far as I can tell is only ever used in a particular "post advance" event... that doesn't fire.
You misunderstood it. When the unit advances (advance event, that is ran just before advancing), it is transformed into that "Advancing" unit, because that unit has AMLA advancements. Advancements in normal units cause performance issues if there is too many of them, so they appear only for a very short time. The "Advancing" unit advances during the advance event (not after it), firing the advance and post advance events again. To prevent an endless inception, there are some mechanisms that make sure the same code won't be run again. Because all changes to a unit are undone after an advance event, the unit is stored and then unstored in a post advance event, where it is transformed back into a unit that does not have the AMLA (without that "Advancing" property), and some of its properties are calculated.
So you are telling that the post advance event doesn't fire?
Okay, I've attached a zip file containing two savegames: one from immediately before advancing Efraim (by killing a troll), and one from immediately after.
I loaded the first one, killed a troll with Efraim, advanced... and nothing happened. He just advanced, I chose one of his advancements, and then he was improved.
I loaded the second save file, and I found only one Efraim there. He seemed to lack some properties, his attacks were not updated. This didn't happen when I was trying to replicate this.
I have tried it on 1.10 and on 1.11.0. The bug appeared on your 1.11.0, but not on mine. It seems an event doesn't fire, causing some variables to behave differently and cause some mess. Can you please try the thing with probes on 1.10.4 (that is already compiled for most platforms, and should be the same as mine) and on 1.11.0 to see what happened differently?

What OS and compiler are you using? I compiled it on Linux Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, using make.
That should probably be mentioned in the LotI help somewhere, or in the description of each of those attacks. All in-game text points to Whirlwind being a killer source of XP.
Okay, I'll revise it.
Also, the "cone" attack doesn't seem particularly cone-shaped to me - it seems like it would be more cone-like for it to hit the three hexes adjacent to the defender but not the attacker.
You must have looked at it incorrectly. It hits the primary target, two more units next to the attacker, and two more units next to the target. Also the unit behind the target.
Dracostar_A
Posts: 15
Joined: July 2nd, 2011, 3:32 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Dracostar_A »

Hello, I have been playing your campaign, and am in the 'Tundra' scenario of chapter 8. I had just upgraded Efraim's redeem to level 3, and since then he has levelled up twice, but there was no option for advancement, but just a typical AMLA. Is this meant to happen?
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Dugi »

Strange, it should have been there, on the top of the list. Which advancement was missing?

I decreased the amounts of redeems needed, made some weak units, redeemed like 7 of them and I got this when I advanced.
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Dracostar_A
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Dracostar_A »

I meant that there was no menu, for anything when advanced. Only a normal unit AMLA (small health increase) happened, though Lethalia and my other units advanced as normal. The last advancement I took was the 'incinerate' option for my sword attack.

EDIT: Efraim seems to be able to advance normally from the next scenario, though it is somewhat inconvenient, as I missed out on 4 possible advancements in the 'Tundra' scenario
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Dugi »

The advancement menus should be suppressed and it should ask you what advancement you want to pick at the beginning of your turn. If it didn't appear the the beginning of your turn (that always worked for me so far), use the menu option to change advancement and see what was the last one (tell me it, it could reveal more about the problem). It will also let you get the advancement you want and didn't get due to a bug (if it is a bug).
Dracostar_A
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Joined: July 2nd, 2011, 3:32 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Dracostar_A »

I levelled up once in the scenario, with the 'incinerate' option, and ever since, no advancement menus have been present, though Efraim has levelled up multiple times
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Dugi »

I suppose you couldn't alter it neither. If it's what I think it was, it should show an error without crashing the game looking like: Lua error: attempt to create unit with empty type field ('AdvancingAdvancingEfraim_God').

Was it like that?
Dracostar_A
Posts: 15
Joined: July 2nd, 2011, 3:32 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Dracostar_A »

No sign of any error message, but I've tried changing advancements, and it seems that this problem is only after getting 'incinerate', and all other advancements allow me to continue upgrading as normal
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Dugi »

That's strange. Send me the save file, please. If it is just some random damage (that just sometime occurs), it shouldn't happen again (by the way, there is nothing strange about any of the incinerate advancements).
Dracostar_A
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Joined: July 2nd, 2011, 3:32 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles (chapter 8 is out)

Post by Dracostar_A »

In this save file, if you change the last advancement to incinerate, the next advancement seems to work, though the ones afterward do not seem to work for me.
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LotI2-Where_the_Flames_Freeze-Auto-Save20.gz
Here is a save file where Efraim is about to level by killing a corrupted Rider
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