StarCraft II

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wayfarer
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by wayfarer »

I know that SC I is old, I don't judge it for age but at the time I played it were those things that bugged me.

I don't know why but I like Infantry heavy games which encourage troop conservations.
That made the design in Warcraft 3 (for example) more enjoyable for me. (and orcs a pain)
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Jetrel »

Jozrael wrote:It's all user-created. It has spawned entirely NEW gametypes. WC3 had the DotA map (Defense of the Ancients), which has spawned a new genre with a half dozen games in it (I just interviewed today for one of those companies). All of this is purely user-created and fantastically awesome.
A new old genre. DotA is just Gauntlet in "versus mode". :geek:
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Zarel »

Jetrel wrote:A new old genre. DotA is just Gauntlet in "versus mode". :geek:
I see three games on Wikipedia named Gauntlet, and none of them look all that similar to DotA. Could you clarify?
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Jozrael »

Uh...hordes of AI-controlled mooks are spawned from generators, which basically must be destroyed to eventually win?

But see I play Gauntlet for the senseless hack and slash killing of the mooks. In DotA...thats kinda a sideshow, it's the hero v hero battle (with all its intricacies) that actually makes the game, well...fun.
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Schierke »

Jozrael wrote:It's all user-created. It has spawned entirely NEW gametypes. WC3 had the DotA map (Defense of the Ancients), which has spawned a new genre with a half dozen games in it (I just interviewed today for one of those companies). All of this is purely user-created and fantastically awesome.
Actually, DoTA was based on a custom map made for SC:
Defense of the Ancients (DotA) is a custom scenario for the real-time strategy video game Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos and its expansion, Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, based on the "Aeon of Strife" map for StarCraft.
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Jozrael »

I'm quite aware of it's origins xD. However, we don't say first person shooters are based off of Maze Wars now do we :P. If there's a shooter very reminiscent of another, we say it's based off that. Likewise, if you want to trace the genealogy all the way back, Aeon of Strife is truly the first we really see of this gameplay. However, LoL shares very little gameplay similarities to it in comparison to modern DotA, and it was the DotA community that spawned all these new games, not AoS.

Thanks for the reminder though :)
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Jetrel »

Zarel wrote:
Jetrel wrote:A new old genre. DotA is just Gauntlet in "versus mode". :geek:
I see three games on Wikipedia named Gauntlet, and none of them look all that similar to DotA. Could you clarify?
They're virtually identical. You're a powerful hero character, that runs around fighting waves of puny monsters that spawn from monster-generators (which can really only be stemmed by killing off the monster generator). You yourself can gain abilities, level up, and grab useable items.

DOTA's innovation was realizing this could be made into a "versus" thing - instead of just always being hero versus monsters, they realized it could be two armies against each other, with heroes leading them. In traditional gauntlet, all the MP players would team up against the AI, and the AI waves were never on your side. DOTA instead split up the MP players, and dared to make one of the armies of AI mooks friendly.


Mind you, don't get offended. Every game design is derivative.
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Zarel »

Jetrel wrote:They're virtually identical. You're a powerful hero character, that runs around fighting waves of puny monsters that spawn from monster-generators (which can really only be stemmed by killing off the monster generator). You yourself can gain abilities, level up, and grab useable items.

DOTA's innovation was realizing this could be made into a "versus" thing - instead of just always being hero versus monsters, they realized it could be two armies against each other, with heroes leading them. In traditional gauntlet, all the MP players would team up against the AI, and the AI waves were never on your side. DOTA instead split up the MP players, and dared to make one of the armies of AI mooks friendly.
"They're virtually identical, except in one of them, you're fighting against waves of mooks, and in the other, you're fighting against other heroes."

"RTSes and ARPGs are virtually identical, except in one of them, you control a larger number of units, and you can spend money on buildings."

"[Anything] and [anything else] are virtually identical, except for [their differences]."
Jetrel wrote:Mind you, don't get offended. Every game design is derivative.
True, but by saying "a new old genre", you imply that it's more derivative than other genres. I mean, I'm not calling DotA unique or the starter of a genre, but I don't see it being in the same genre as Gauntlet.
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Jetrel »

Zarel wrote:True, but by saying "a new old genre", you imply that it's more derivative than other genres. I mean, I'm not calling DotA unique or the starter of a genre, but I don't see it being in the same genre as Gauntlet.
And I see it as Gauntlet Deathmatch.
Your assessment may differ, but let's stop here because we clearly disagree about this in a way that won't be resolved by argument.
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Jozrael »

I am very sad :<. SC2 singleplayer is running poorly on the laptop I just bought, when beta ran fine on my 4 year old one :<.
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Zarel »

Jozrael wrote:I am very sad :<. SC2 singleplayer is running poorly on the laptop I just bought, when beta ran fine on my 4 year old one :<.
Have you tried installing drivers?
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Jozrael »

Derp? No, I haven't. What drivers would I need to install that would help :<? It's integrated graphics, just like my old one, but I guess not as good :P.
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Zarel »

Jozrael wrote:Derp? No, I haven't. What drivers would I need to install that would help :<? It's integrated graphics, just like my old one, but I guess not as good :P.
...erm, installing drivers for your integrated graphics would probably help.
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by Jozrael »

I assumed that it came with them. Will do I guess, thanks.
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Re: StarCraft II

Post by MCP »

I am really looking forward to playing custom scenarios, such as RPGs, DotA, and whatever else people come up with.
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