NEW: Elvish Dynasty RPG

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Wesbane
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Re: NEW: Elvish Dynasty RPG

Post by Wesbane » January 28th, 2015, 9:46 pm

cdcooley wrote:You're either going to love or hate me for this, but I've found another.
Yep, it is never a good thing to hurry with an update. :lol:
So as you can see I have taken a precaution to never make a hasty reaction again. :mrgreen:
As for information. The high level of detail provided is not common so any campaign designer would welcome it. If not, well at least no one could claim that you didn't make everything to make given campaign better. ;)
All finds are typos and you are correct that all of them prevent victory when scenario objectives are satisfied.
Hopefully this were the last typos that needed to be taken care off.

So once again. Thank you for another great bug report.
Tom_Of_Wesnoth wrote:[...] I think the Coronation scenario is too difficult.
It is good that you have taken your time to inform about your experience with the campaign. However if you expect me to do something about it, you should elaborate the matter further.

At very least you should specify:
  • 1. Chosen difficulty level.
    2. Experienced problems. (What are main difficulties in capturing the objectives of the scenario.)
Optionally attaching starting scenario save and a replay. Even if this is a failed attempt, it helps.

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Inky
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Re: NEW: Elvish Dynasty RPG

Post by Inky » June 27th, 2015, 3:26 am

Elvish Dynasty 0.10.1b (Wesnoth v 1.12.0)
This was such a fresh and entertaining campaign! So many creative ideas, my favorite being the unity magic system.
I thought the balance was good too (playing on hard) and didn't come across any bugs.

Minor typo in EDTier2Epilogue: The line

Code: Select all

message= _ "KINGDOM HAPPINESS: $kingdom[0] of 100.
should be

Code: Select all

message= _ "KINGDOM HAPPINESS: $happiness[0] of 100.
in order for the value to display correctly.

Thanks for an amazing campaign!

tekanji
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Re: NEW: Elvish Dynasty RPG

Post by tekanji » August 31st, 2015, 12:56 pm

Playing Wesnoth 1.12.4 with Elvish Dynasty RPG 0.10.1c, the scenario with the undead (defeat Zaqfi the Restless as the win condition) on a Windows 7 machine. I downloaded all the required dependencies, but when I started the scenario I got this error message (I presume on Lord Senhae's turn):

Code: Select all

<Invalid WML Found> Unit-type "Elvish Peasant" doesn't exist.
Am I missing a required add-on or what?

Also, just cause I saw it mentioned: I also got frustrated with the Coronation ceremony, in part because the randomness makes the game balance really poorly in some playthroughs. Especially for a new player like me (and especially especially because I refuse to let my troops die... at all). I am playing on Easy and basically using your campaign as a "Learn how to play Wesnoth" tutorial (the default campaigns kind of bore me story wise... sorry, devs) and my current thought is that the only way to get through the Coronation without casualties is to 1) play the first 5 years with combat only, because troop experience is generally much more valuable than diplomacy perks; and 2) to game the randomness so I get combat levels that progress naturally, instead of being thrown into an impossible situation with green troops. I could be entirely wrong though, haha. [edit: Actually, I had a thought: reducing the required turn amount on Easy might help make it less intimidating. It's much harder than the Loregem scenario and that one is only 25 turns with better defensive spots and fewer enemies.]

I definitely would appreciate a more... structured randomness. In particular, having the harder combat scenarios only show up if you have gone through X number of combats (eg. the "it's not your fault" rebellion scenario only starts having a chance to show up after you've completed 2 combat missions). I can't say much about the diplomacy, because so far the only one that has even been slightly worth it in my playthroughs is the sea monster one (although obviously I am only speaking for myself because I have what is probably a rare play style).

If I may be honest... I think the game would be a lot more fun if the player got to choose one diplomacy-style event and one combat event every year. Of course, that would fundamentally alter the gameplay and require a 100% rebalance of everything, so I'm more just stating an opinion than making a request.

Anyway, really fun campaign and please do let me know about the bug. Thanks!

tekanji
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Re: NEW: Elvish Dynasty RPG

Post by tekanji » September 3rd, 2015, 11:13 am

I found another bug: on the More Artifact Merchants diplomacy mission, not buying the Staff of Speed ends the turn prematurely and you enter "Turn 1", where you can move around but otherwise not do anything. Ending the turn just advances the turn counter but does not allow you to finish the scenario.

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Wesbane
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Re: NEW: Elvish Dynasty RPG

Post by Wesbane » September 11th, 2015, 9:02 pm

And so I am summoned from nonexistence once again… :annoyed:

About bugs.
The short and true explanation is that dragon has ate all Lord Sanhaes' peasants. :lol:

The long and boring one is that in 0.10.0 version Elvish Peasants had been replaced with Elvish Subjects. Far more potent and a bit more expensive units. Shipped with a feature of not being gender restricted. The whole reason behind the modification was not a political correctness but the fact that at some point of a game you could get to control noncombat units. As an added bonus it fits well to the world setting in the campaign. In such small population as Florian one every hand counts. So bug you have described is caused by this change not being reflected on side recruit list commanded by Lord Sanhae.
tekanji wrote:I found another bug [...]
This one is caused by my right index finger not pressing n in strength word when I was rewriting code of that scenario. Probably I should cut off bad finger. :roll:
I wish that nature of bugs would be more complicated but most of the time they are just typos… :augh:
And so once again it turned own that rushing with an answer would be a mistake. :lol:
Since it seemed that you are so good with identifying the bugs and reporting them I really don't think I should publish a fixed version just yet.

Thank you for very good bug reports.

All mentioned bugs had been removed in newly released version 0.10.1d. One bug not revealed in this topic was also neutralized.
tekanji wrote:I definitely would appreciate a more... structured randomness. In particular, having the harder combat scenarios only show up if you have gone through X number of combats (eg. the "it's not your fault" rebellion scenario only starts having a chance to show up after you've completed 2 combat missions).
Scenarios are already divided into two independent groups. The harder ones occur after coronation. Levels from both groups are separated events that can happen in any order. As a part of original concept that works well it won't be changed.
Also note that Lord Zifane rebellion is not a difficult scenario. Skilled wesnoth player in campaigns can defeat force worth four time of his. Extremely good player can win against armies five times bigger than theirs. In some circumstances even larger forces can be destroyed. You will begin this scenario with at least 60 gold pieces compared to 40 70 100 130 from easiest to hardest difficulty. Which means that in worst case scenario enemy will have only 2/3 of your forces on easy. It will be a bit stronger on normal, nearly twice as strong on hard and his forces will be twice as big as yours on nightmare. Not to mention that you have 28 turns to crush them. Over time all ai opponents became weaker unless designer decide to buff them up. Extra turns is an additional gold on players end. If that wouldn't be enough if this is your first task you can approach the scenario with tremendous amount of 105 gold pieces on easy or level 1 unity magic of some kind. As far as theory goes no issues here. Guarding units don't really count since they won't attack you and are sort off helping you out by reducing enemy income.
tekanji wrote:I can't say much about the diplomacy, because so far the only one that has even been slightly worth it in my playthroughs is the sea monster one (although obviously I am only speaking for myself because I have what is probably a rare play style).
While there is no diplomacy scenario according to my knowledge that would feature a sea monster, but only aquatic monster I think you are referring to the Mine Assault scenario. So, correct me if I'm wrong…
Anyway diplomacy in the game is quite potent, it even seemed that diplomacy scenarios might be much more of use than combat ones. During test runs I picked combat only if I had run out of gold or I wasn't interested in actions offered in diplomacy level.
tekanji wrote:If I may be honest...
Sure, how the otherwise would be possible to gather any useful feedback. :wink:
tekanji wrote:I think the game would be a lot more fun if the player got to choose one diplomacy-style event and one combat event every year. Of course, that would fundamentally alter the gameplay and require a 100% rebalance of everything, so I'm more just stating an opinion than making a request.
The balancing issues of the campaign had already been addressed by implementing support cost and war tax. The last modification approved by the author himself when this solutions were proposed to him among others.
And no, making such a change would not require a load of work given the vast campaign structural improvements. However it will not be changed because such rare events when choice is not yours to make between combat and diplomacy are part of original concept that works. Of course ideas how to make this concept better are welcome.

As for your thoughts regarding the Coronation scenario.
tekanji wrote:[…] play the first 5 years with combat only, because troop experience is generally much more valuable than diplomacy perks [...]
Not true. View Campaign set of rules section for details.
tekanji wrote:[…] to game the randomness so I get combat levels that progress naturally, instead of being thrown into an impossible situation with green troops. I could be entirely wrong though, haha. [...]
Congratulations on this one, you just made a major upgrade to the campaign! :mrgreen:
I knew about it, but considered rather a feature for those who get into trouble with the campaign. But now when you publicly described how it can be used to literally gamble for favourable events it will no longer be possible in 0.11.0 version. Since it makes pointless any attempts at balancing the campaign. There is no need to bother about it if player can skip to events he finds better.
tekanji wrote:Actually, I had a thought: reducing the required turn amount on Easy might help make it less intimidating. It's much harder than the Loregem scenario and that one is only 25 turns with better defensive spots and fewer enemies.
I would agree with you on this. However scenario objective is
Resist until an opportunity for escape presents itself
not
Resist till the end of turns
as it is in Gem Cave scenario.
The thing is that while playing strategy games most players or at least me expects that all cards are on the table. That all special mechanic of campaign and scenario had been explained so they can made reliable decisions upon this knowledge. Whenever this situation is changed by designer in scenario it is like pulling a card from under the table.
Here the objective is pretty vogue, so stating how much turns has left to its occurrence would be great, but given the initial situation player may say at beginning that situation is bad, but the terrain is favourable to my troops. And together with my ally I have no less than 200 gold pieces. It won't be easy but it is manageable. Then when turn limit hit the situation will change for worse and given that it happen quite fast there is pretty big chance that player won't do anything to this moment to improve his starting position.
It is like discovering that every deck of cards on the world has four aces except this one. Which has five. What leads to instant reload and replaying with that in mind.
I don't have anything against pulling cards from under the table since it is one of techniques to make game more interesting as long as they are not aces. Cards that will turn whole game plan upside down.
If setting initial turn limit to lower value don't look to you as putting a hidden ace in play, it will be done for all difficulty levels.
tekanji wrote:Also, just cause I saw it mentioned: I also got frustrated with the Coronation ceremony, in part because the randomness makes the game balance really poorly in some playthroughs. Especially for a new player like me (and especially especially because I refuse to let my troops die... at all). I am playing on Easy and basically using your campaign as a "Learn how to play Wesnoth"
Once again campaign is balanced although due to redundant design, there is more levels than can be played during single run, some balancing issues certainly do exist and I am aware of it. However as far as Coronation and Finale scenarios are concerned there are no spikes regarding balance there. The reason for this is that while other scenarios may or not may happen events pictured in those two always take place. The effort put into these scenarios is clearly visible. Not to mention that extra content that need to be downloaded is used only for the Coronation.

As for being considered harder then the rest of a game in author own words it supposed to feel this way:
SpenceLack wrote:Note that the Coronation (Year 5) and Empire invasion (Year 10) are "boss" levels so they're supposed to be a little more challenging than regular levels.
You have written a lot about balance. This aspect of campaign is tied to difficulty. Unfortunately game lacks official definition of difficulty. What it is and what certain levels of it should be like. For my own designing purpose I assume that easy means that you don't need most of advantages offered in campaign though obtaining them is much easier than on hard mode. Advantage is not limited to things already present in game like veterans, gold carryover and tactic but also any extra features like items, loyal units, treasures and special abilities. In other words game on easy is more tolerable to player mistakes. He can play really bad and still succeed though it won't be as easy. The campaign delivers that. Also 0.10 series is significantly easier than it predecessor because you always have gold for battles.
Anyway right now I can only guess what is the source of your problems, except mentioned by you inexperience, with game since I don't know what kind of boosters you have collected. Because of that I putted a lot of information that hopefully will answer for all your question on this matter.

In future you might be interested in making things clearer by attaching to your post replays from your games. Wesnoth is shipped with the feature of creating game saves that make possible to view fought battles. In this case just search for ElDy-* files. Then pick those with replay ending. Zip those you want to share into one file. Preferably from single run, so anyone viewing it could follow you progress through campaign. Which is also useful when you seek for strategy advise in Strategies & Tips forum section.

As for learning from Elvish Dynasty how to play wesnoth. While of course it is nice that you picked this one from the crowd it is not best to learn the basics because it uses special mechanics that deviates from standard rules. Except from this one that gaining and losing units is counted into design, so it is not a tragedy here or in other wesnoth campaigns in general. However here it has a greater impact. Also it never was creators' intention to develop a campaign in which it is virtually impossible to lose a unit, and neither is mine though producing such an effect isn't a problem with WML alone.
In campaigns following default set of rules gold is the currency. Which you basically trade for experience. When you start a fight it is up to you to decide to finish it quickly to be able to field more troops in battles to come or relay your veterans and harvest experience by hunting down every single enemy in the area. :twisted:
In Elvish Dynasty happiness is the currency. You can exchange it for gold, experience, units, items, your leader abilities and naturally unity magic. Simply there are a lot more possibilities in this campaign then in standard ones.
This what you have stated looks to me as that what is perceived by some as balancing problems are in fact problems with understanding mechanics behind the campaign although there are tutorials covering it. Information contained there aren't of use? Regardless of this I will describe possibilities in the campaign.
Please note that this is nothing you wouldn't learn from the game and given how long it took me to answer, you did so already. If aspect of discovery is important to you, don't read it, but if you think you are missing something go ahead.
Campaign set of rules:
If you know above rules campaign is not very hard even on hardest difficulty. However don't count that you will not lose any unit if you play on it. Including coronation scenario.

Below is reliable strategy to beat this level without problems. As always there is nothing there you wouldn't figure out.
Coronation analysis and strategy:
Not quite on subject:

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Enchanteur
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Re: NEW: Elvish Dynasty RPG

Post by Enchanteur » January 1st, 2016, 11:37 pm

Hello, I spendt some hours playing this campains.
It's incredibly addictive. The story is very well enjoyable.
I have some difficultys to pass the scenario where you have to stop humain invasion accross the big river.
One thing I don't understand about the campains : I can't training more the queen, but nothing previously say how many time it's possible to do so (I suppose I reached the limit, and game say it's "final stats"). If it's final stat, so only 90 pts can be won by training. It would be far best if you can give to the player a limit of 100 pts because all stats recquires 25 or 50 pts, so there is some usefull combinations to do, else some points are wastes.
Thanks for this great story !
French Player. For now, I'm working on creation of abilitys and units with WML. My goal is to make an enhanced version of Elves, playable with standard campains. HERE : http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 58&start=0

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tamanegi
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Re: NEW: Elvish Dynasty RPG

Post by tamanegi » January 3rd, 2016, 11:16 am

Hi, I wanna report a minor bug and some typos(@version 0.11.0a).

bug:
In the Kirielle's Past scenario (5cED.cfg), skipping scene also skips the victory bonus of Bryony happiness.

typos:
In the first year at "Sacred Glade" (EDTier1.cfg), speaker of the message "Come speak to me to learn about unity magic and the power of LOVE!!!" must be Bryony. :D

In "Heritage" scenario (EDTier2Heritage.cfg), there are three "speakre=" params in SPEAKER_GENERIC instead of "speaker=".

Also in "Heritage" scenario, first message of "marvelous victory" event: "You feel some aura of dark magic and than you have spotted familiar shape in shadows of the dusk." I guess than should be then.

And also in "Heritage" scenario, in "You cannot or you don't won't to? Do you know how many people were certainly mislead by your advise?", I suppose that won't maybe want.

thank you,
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It is true that we cannot be free from bugs, but at least let our bugs not always the same...
A Group in a War: my first campaign, An Independence War: and the sequel

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Wesbane
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Re: NEW: Elvish Dynasty RPG

Post by Wesbane » January 13th, 2016, 8:42 pm

Enchanteur wrote:I can't training more the queen, but nothing previously say how many time it's possible to do so (I suppose I reached the limit, and game say it's "final stats").
Now when you mentioned it I agree that campaign description is kinda lacking. All mainline campaigns and custom ones that I have installed include information about their length. So probably this oversight should be fixed in upcoming release.
The information about reaching the limit was added in version 0.10.0 to prevent player from pointless training that was possible and resulted only in happiness decrease.
Enchanteur wrote:If it's final stat, so only 90 pts can be won by training. It would be far best if you can give to the player a limit of 100 pts because all stats requires 25 or 50 pts, so there is some useful combinations to do, else some points are wastes.
You are aware that except regular training you can decide to chose heavy one which gives you twenty points in attributes at expense of ten happiness? Also in some playthroughs it is possible to acquire items that allow to rise attributes by 20 points.
Enchanteur wrote:I have some difficulties to pass the scenario where you have to stop human invasion across the big river.
This is a final battle. As such battle course is highly affected by your previous decisions. Troops, gold and other resources at your disposal. If you are seeking help in this matter the best way is to provide start scenario save and replay of failed attempt. Difficulty level you are playing and starting gold are also valuable information. Though for posting question about how to beat certain obstacles Strategy & Tips section might be a better place.
Tamanegi wrote:In the Kirielle's Past scenario (5cED.cfg), skipping scene also skips the victory bonus of Bryony happiness.
This is a very old bug present from the beginning. Unnoticed the same bad structure was copied to the new version. Good find!

Thank you for detailed bug report, including even the smallest problems!

As always all mentioned issues will be fixed in next release. While current version is huge improvement over 0.10.x series most probably there are still bugs to be found so don't hesitate to expose them. :wink:

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Elder2
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Re: NEW: Elvish Dynasty RPG

Post by Elder2 » August 16th, 2017, 11:24 am

A fun campaign, I have finished it on nightmare, though the last scenario was rather tedious. I liked the motifs in it and the gameplay features were nice as well, it is something new though in my run most of the scenarios were kind of "kill everything" scenarios, whether it is defend or not, and also I feel like there are a bit too little of them. And the old sorceress line sprite, that is amazing, I live it, it would be even better if faerie fire attack animation wasn't there but rather just original plain faerie fire animation (ignoring the fact that the oryginal one was col faerie fire, most people wouldn't remember that anyway)
Spoiler:

hvdvyve
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Re: NEW: Elvish Dynasty RPG

Post by hvdvyve » March 17th, 2018, 3:03 pm

I just finished it for the third time (this time on nightmare), I love the fact that it's always different! I also love the fact that it follows up on the Ooze mini campaign. Thank you

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tamanegi
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Re: NEW: Elvish Dynasty RPG

Post by tamanegi » May 19th, 2018, 1:44 am

Hello, could you please update the japanese translation resource?
ja.zip
japanese translation
(231.68 KiB) Downloaded 113 times
(EDIT: Sun, 20th) Thx!
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It is true that we cannot be free from bugs, but at least let our bugs not always the same...
A Group in a War: my first campaign, An Independence War: and the sequel

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