Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

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Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby melinath » August 4th, 2009, 5:37 am

The Steelhive Faction created by Zerovirus and coded by me is up on the add-on server as an Era combined with Default Era for balancing purposes.

Please particularly enjoy the lightshifters, which can take on the appearance of any of your units! But be careful - it is only an illusion. They don't actually get any stronger by pretending to be a level 3 Boltstriker.

This thread is for feedback and balancing suggestions for the faction.
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby Zerovirus » August 4th, 2009, 12:02 pm

You are my favorite person. :D

Time for download.

EDIT: First issue I see is that even the player can't tell if the unit is actually a lightshifter or the real deal... How about all lightshifted units are translucent to the player? I sent a boltstriker into a group of 3 lv1s and it turned out it was a lightshifter... Ouch. 10 gold down the drain.

EDIT 2: And, when the player attacks a lightshifter, well, I was kinda hoping for it to kinda de-cloak and be seen as the glowing load of bricks it is.

EDIT 3: And, the stats all need work XD. I played against Default and got owned every time. The units maybe could be a bit cheaper, to heighten the "robot drone cannon fodder" thing. Or we could just make them a bit stronger.

EDIT 4: With the Oculus line, I meant for him to have one attack of 9 at first and then 3 attacks of whatever I came up with once he upgrades. Not 9 attacks that each deal 1, XD. We need some major rebalancing of stats... And I can only be the Steel Sparkgazer for leader? What about Steel Bladewhirler and Steel Vector (though I admit Steel Vector looks particularily puny for a Lv2 unit. I need to redo his graphic.)
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby melinath » August 4th, 2009, 4:35 pm

Okay, got a new version up. Edits 2 and 4 are taken care of. Edit 1 may not be possible. I noticed that, too, but I know of no way to make a unit overlay only appear for a certain player. But I'll look into it when I get a chance. Also, I suspect that in a true multiplayer setting, it may be possible for anyone to shift the lightshifters of the current player... but this theory is untested.

Electric weapons are all fine and good, but I need to know what damage type you want. For example: a berserk attack, just like any other attack, must also have a damage type, like impact, blade, arcane, fire, pierce, and cold.

So: TODO:
1. Electric weapon special
2. reduce cost
3. look into lightshifter marking
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby Zerovirus » August 4th, 2009, 4:48 pm

Piercing then, for the ranged electrical attacks on all units.

Hope the lightshifter idea works...

EDIT: XD on the addons the authors are "Zerovirus and Melina". Melina XD

Besides from that, you should make the image representing our faction on the addons list the Steel Vorpal or some other custom graphic I made, because that seems to attract more prople than just some random committed attack icon.

EDIT 2: You forgot to change the Steel Vector's terrain defenses to 10% and make them unpassable on all water-based tiles.

EDIT 3: I tried shifting an enemy lightshifter on a local game and it didn't work.

EDIt 4(again XD): If we can't do what I wanted with the Lightshifters what we have right now works, IE the Lightshifter reveals its true form when an enemy attacks. Could you make a sound effect, like a whoosh or a flashish sound, when the Lightshifter is attacked and forced to reveal true form?
Last edited by Zerovirus on August 4th, 2009, 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby Pentarctagon » August 4th, 2009, 5:02 pm

also, they have no name since you copy/pasted the welkin's names, but left the macro as {WELKIN_NAMES}.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby Turuk » August 4th, 2009, 5:03 pm

Zerovirus wrote:EDIT: XD on the addons the authors are "Zerovirus and Melina". Melina XD

Besides from that, you should make the image representing our faction on the addons list the Steel Vorpal or some other custom graphic I made, because that seems to attract more prople than just some random committed attack icon.


His full name won't show because only a certain number of characters are allowed. Also, a custom image will not show up on the add-on server as it would require the person downloading the add-on to have that image already.
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby Zerovirus » August 4th, 2009, 5:05 pm

Hmm... I'm not responsible for WML and the programming in general, only for ideas and graphics... Ask melinath when he's here. If he did though, I suggest he remove the tag (though I don't really know what it is).

Also, Sound Effects. Just the usual stuff, like Dark Adept's bolt sound for the Oculus line, and a generic slashing sound from one of the loyalist units will do for all slashing abilities... Hopefully the Lightshifter can also play a "whoosh" or a "shoomp" sound when it shifts or is unshifted by an attack.

EDIT:
@Turuk: Oh. That's why there aren't snazzy custom graphics on the addons list. Hmm... Can't one of you magical programmers make the game so that we can use our own custom images for that little image besides our addon?

EDIT 2: All Steelhive units need to have 20% defense on coastal reef and river ford. They now have 50% on river ford but only 30% on sandy which is not what I intended.

EDIT 3: Some of the Slasher Line's graphics looks like they're floating. Maybe they should be moved down a bit. Also, all Oculus line units fly, so they shouldn't appear submerged in swamp and water areas.

EDIT again:

OK. I am going to redo the stats for the whole faction, because honestly the faction is completely unusable in real war at this point. I was afraid of making them too overpowered, so I was very careful... Turns out I made them underpowered...

Stats: (Still really WIP- no testers are helping me... D:)

steel slasher:


steel bladewhirler:


steel vector:


steel vorpal:


steel oculus:


steel sparkgazer:


steel boltstriker:


Now for the units that haven't been made with stats yet.
All new units are flying; for terrain movement and defense, use what I said for the Oculus line.

Steel Amniote
Lv1 Neutral (for that beautiful ZoC)
Cost: 11
HP: 40
XP: 3 (remember, only needs to be attacked a few times and survive to upgrade)
Attacks:
None
Upgrades to Steel Choriote

Steel Choriote
Lv2 Neutral
Cost: 23
HP: 60
XP: 5 (survive a few more for AMLA fullheal)
Attacks:
Battery Pulse (10-1, Defend Only, Counter, Drains)
Max Level

Steel Cybercone
Lv1 Neutral
Leadership
Cost: 14
HP: 20
XP: 1 (once attacked it notices enemies and deploys into core mode)
Attacks:
None
Advances into Steel Cybercore

Steel Cybercore
Lv2 Neutral
Leadership
Cost: 29
HP: 25
XP: 35 (AMLA heal is far off, don't depend on it...)
Attacks:
Battery Pulse (8-1, Drains, Counter)
Max Level
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby melinath » August 4th, 2009, 7:43 pm

New version up with the new units and sound effects.

Regarding mvps and def on terrain: I've tried, but I'm not sure it'll work... I don't have time to do as much work as I've been doing on this and will take a break now until tomorrow or the day after.

Electric attack still not enabled.

EDIT:: Pentarctagon: thanks. I left that so I wouldn't forget... then I forgot. Steelhive names are now enabled.
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby Zerovirus » August 4th, 2009, 8:12 pm

Thanks for all the work you've done! I really don't mind when we get this done, it's not like we're doing mainline and have deadlines to catch. Take all the breaks you want. I never actually expected to get a faction made anyways, XD.

EDIT:

Wow, love the naming system you came up with. It was actually similar to what I was planning.

EDIT: Sound effects, too? You're awesome, Melinath. Still, I just realized that the Amniotes and Choriotes are way overpowered unless attacked by Berserk skills... I mean, like a full heal almost every turn? Way overpowered. We need to reduce their health and increase the XP needed for AMLA.

ANOTHER EDIT: Dang, the Cybercones are more useful than I anticipated. They turn the 11-1 Jolt into a 16-1 Jolt. So useful. And to think I always went with Elvish Hero when an Elvish Fighter upgrades...

MOAR EDIT: Yeah, Amniotes are way too overpowered. Make the Amniote Upgrade XP 3 and the Choriote AMLA XP 12. I tried to kill a choriote with a bladewhirler, and I lost. The choriote then upgraded 6 times (wtf) due to ots ungodly low AMLA XP requirements and that the Bladewhirler gave 12 XP.

Also, the AI is too stupid to learn to ignore the almost-invulnerable Choriotes, so I ended up with 6 Steel Vorpals not being able to win due to two Choriotes in the way; every time one attacked the Choriotes upgrades, fullheal included, and stays there like a stupid rock...

So the idea didn't work out the way I hoped. More stat tweaking is needed. The other units seem more balanced though.

ONE LAST EDIT PLZ:
Make the Cybercone's Battery Pulse a move that he can use to attack... Stupid AI tries to attack with a Cybercone and gets owned. If it can't attack it's just an Amniote that has leadership.
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby melinath » August 4th, 2009, 9:25 pm

Tweaked choriote xp.
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby Zerovirus » August 4th, 2009, 9:36 pm

I'm always pointing out tiny things I want changed... Hope it isn't too annoying.

Because a lot of melee units' graphics are too high up and I can't edit them without removing transparency. Canyou move the... Let me make a list.

Amniote- Down 5 pixels
Bladewhirler- Down 5 pixels
Slasher- Down, maybe 7 or 8 pixels?
Vector- Down 7 pixels
Vorpal- Down 3 pixels

Basically have their shadows at almost the same alignment in the graphics and it'll be great. And, can you make the melee animations actually have the little slashers and vorpals and whatnot move at each other? Right now I can't even tell which unit is attacking due to the fact that none of the attacks, ranged or melee, moves the actual units. A few lightning bolts from the Lich's Shadow Wave would be cool for all the electrical attacks too.

EDIT: Choriote is still overpowered; too many hitpoints, so I'm going to fix it myself... Amniote now has 35 HP and 2 XP to level up, Choriote has 45 HP and 10 XP to level up. I uploaded the new version.

I EDIT too much: The entire army is more balanced in general but still can't stand up to any mainline faction in combat... I've tried pitting computers against each other, with one being the Steelhive and one being a random mainline faction, and every single time, the Steelhive loses. So the computer doesn't know how to use amniotes or Cybercores or Lightshifters, but that shouldn't make that much of a difference...

Then I tried playing against AI. I lost every time. I don't think that can be chalked up to my epic failure in Wesnoth Tactics 101.

Oh well. More units planned:

Steel Drone=>Scout=>Recon
Scout units that can hide on flat terrain, making them scoutninjas. Very weak and low HP to compensate. Not intended for real battle, only stealth. The Steel Recon unit gains a Taser, which deals 20-1 damage. Assassination FTW.

Steel Repairer
Cheap repair units that have heal+4. Their only attack is the ranged Zap which deals 5-1 Damage. However, spam up a few of these cheap healers and you can win wars at little injury.
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby wesfreak » August 5th, 2009, 1:45 pm

i will try testing your faction, and see what is wrong with them.

edit: i cant find your faction on the add on list.
Last edited by wesfreak on August 5th, 2009, 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby Zerovirus » August 5th, 2009, 2:03 pm

*Makes mental note to add new name to credits list*

EDIT:
New unit idea:

Steel Sentient. Another one that needs a bit of WML. Basically it's a Lv1 that doesn't advance but can learn from past fights; every time it gets AMLA (with base XP needed being 6) you have the choice of increasing its HP, Attack power on melee or ranged, or Attack amount of melee or ranged. (5 choices in total) Unfortunately though, it costs 22 gold due to its literally infinite potential and has really weak starting combat stats. 20 HP, 3x3 Melee, 3x3 Ranged.

What version are you playing on? We have it on the 1.7 server, I think... Right, Melinath?
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby wesfreak » August 5th, 2009, 2:12 pm

oh. i'm on 1.6.

what you just suggested is possible, but i don't know enough wml to do it, just the basics.

don't make every lvl up advance an official lvl. do what they did for kaleh of the queenoth elves and make it 2 for every lvl.

maybe it should be a 2 damage upgrade?
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Re: Steelhive Faction feedback/balancing

Postby Turuk » August 5th, 2009, 2:15 pm

Zerovirus wrote:@Turuk: Oh. That's why there aren't snazzy custom graphics on the addons list. Hmm... Can't one of you magical programmers make the game so that we can use our own custom images for that little image besides our addon?


No. Think about it. If the image is one of the custom images that comes in your add-on, and the player has not downloaded it yet, how would their computer be able to find the image to display it to them when they look at your add-on on the add-on server?
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