Scenario Review: NR 5 - The Pursuit

Feedback for the mainline campaign Northern Rebirth.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Ceres
Forum Regular
Posts: 620
Joined: September 18th, 2010, 7:56 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Scenario Review: NR 5 - The Pursuit

Post by Ceres » March 30th, 2011, 7:10 pm

1) Level, Version? Normal, 1.9.4
2) Difficulty? 9.
3) Clear? Very.
4) Dialogue? Nice.
5) Challenges? White Mages losing all their XP when respawning. And Draugs.
6) Fun? 5. Mostly because of the bottleneck corridors.
7) Changes? Nice as it is.
8) Restarts? No. But I admit, I save-loaded a couple of times.
9) WML? Good.

User avatar
taptap
Forum Regular
Posts: 980
Joined: October 6th, 2011, 5:42 pm

Re: Scenario Review: NR 5 - The Pursuit

Post by taptap » October 7th, 2011, 9:30 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Swordsman (Difficult), 1.9.9 and Royal Guard (Nightmare), 1.10.3 - the comments are from the first playthrough, but most still stand.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6 - It is not so hard, if you know the map from previous tries and with spoilers. Without them it is nearly impossible. (Spiders, enemy leaders room with 4 liches etc.?) Interestingly even level 2 skeletons fear dwarves after you whittled them down, so it is relatively easy to block the corridors.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear enough.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Reading the spoilers and getting knowledge by trying out. Levelling level1 units all the way to level3.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

2 - It is just a pain. Takes ages, if you don't have preknowledge of the map and have to run someone through the caves to reinforce at the other end. Immortal white mages are ridiculous. I loved scenarios 1, 2 and 4, this one was just a pain. It needed just 4 levels from an all peasant, woodsmen army to a bunch of bored dwarf lords and ironclads (I killed all the ghouls in level 4 for tons of experience, which was surprisingly easy) fighting through dozens of level 2 and 3 skeletons. The amount of enemies doesn't add fun, it just guarantees that you get most of your units at level 3 during this scenario even the level 1 loyals.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Take away the immortality of the White mages (that would be a much bigger challenge than all the other "challenges" people manage by abusing the mages) and change the rest of this and later scenarios accordingly, say only some level3 skeletons and maybe one other lich as bodyguard in the study room.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Reading spoilers that I really need to go to the spiders - can't there be one case were being cautious would be the right choice? (Killing them in the bottleneck isn't so hard once you are convinced by their amount that you have to defend there.)

Storming the study room with plenty of arcane damage dwarf lords just to face tons of liches (I did save-load that time and went for a leader kill with the White mages instead).
Last edited by taptap on July 27th, 2012, 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

alluton
Posts: 420
Joined: June 26th, 2010, 6:49 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Scenario Review: NR 5 - The Pursuit

Post by alluton » December 29th, 2011, 9:28 am

Seriously what are you supposed to do in this scenario?(i know to find and kill him) But i just see 20 level 2 skeletons and some level 3. And more keeps coming. I startedthis scenario whit 2k gold but im gonna kick those skeletons ass there wount be any gold left.... So how to do this?
"This game cured me of my real life addiction."
-Flameslash

MerlinCross
Posts: 51
Joined: November 25th, 2014, 5:52 am

Re: Scenario Review: NR 5 - The Pursuit

Post by MerlinCross » December 6th, 2014, 10:28 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on? Easy, 1.12
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 8+
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Decent
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? The Spider Trap. It's BS that all your units in there are forever trapped
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 2. Interesting dungeon crawl, turns into a slog. Save often.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? Lower the amount of gold certain armies get. Especially with the Southwest army. He'll just spam units against you till you've ground yourself down, and that's before you get the healers
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?The BS spider trap. I survived it pretty well but one of the immortal mages was forever trapped back there. I couldn't put enough units down the flooded path to kill the lich guards after that. Maybe make the cave in go away after you kill all the spiders?
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better? Didn't look

User avatar
shadow12
Posts: 98
Joined: November 6th, 2015, 1:06 am

Re: Scenario Review: NR 5 - The Pursuit

Post by shadow12 » January 3rd, 2016, 3:06 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging, 1.0.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 8

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
The objective should really should say "Kill Malifor with Father Mage or Sister Mage." After I killed Malifor the first time, he reappeared in the northern chamber. Unfortunately, the only one there was Tallin. So I had to move some reinforcements to him. The next time I killed him the dialog said I have to kill Malifor with Sister mage or Father mage. It took awhile to get a mage there on such a big map. I didn't finish until turn 96 due to all this messing around.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The dialog between Sister Mage and Father Mage' was silly - giggling, pouty faces, winking, eye rolling, and so on. Each time they are revived, its repeated all over again.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Boredom moving units through long, narrow tunnels that went up the entire length of the map. Frustration having to move units back and forth. Spending resources to get to the holy water, only to find it was only temporary and it wouldn't be any benefit to me. Having to listen to those two ridiculous mages!

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 2.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? See #5 rant.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No restarts. Some reloads to save key players and not have to restart.

The wiki has great info and really helped. I usually try a scenario on my own first before reading the wiki or forums, but not this one.
In the SW tunnel, you get a Drake named Krash, 2 white mages and a Druid. I sent a quick footpad farther up the long tunnel to get 3 dwarves. It eventually opened to the treasury. You can then attack the treasury from 2 sides.

Your units won't get permanently stuck in the spider chamber. This chamber gets blocked off, but a secret passage opens up east into Malifor's chamber.

I sent a White mage with Tallin and 5 strong units north to the spiders, plus a footpad as Spider bait. I sent the footpad in the room to rile up the spiders. The doorway to the spider chamber is the perfect spot to attack. Started with 10 spiders. It took about 20 turns to kill them all because I didn't want to lose any of those units, except the footpad. The spider chamber has a passage off to the right opening into Malifor's chamber. The rod of Justice Is off to the left. I gave it to Tallin.

The treasury in the northwest adds up to about 14,000 gold. Why so much, I do not know.
i sent the quick white Mage down the SE tunnel with 2 other quick, strong units. She finds a Wraith (ghost) along the way. It is a long, grueling trek up the entire length of the map to Melfor's chamber. The tunnel is frustratingly narrow.

The 6 bottles of holy water last only to the end of the scenario. It took me until turn 80 to work my way east through hordes of skeletons to get the holy water. Turns out I didn't need the darn holy water so late in the game and it will not carry over to the next scenario. It was a waste of time. I would suggest to set up a choke point in the eastern tunnel and just forget about it.
Sometimes life unexpectedly throws a Troll or a nasty Queen Naga in your path.

BillytheBabyGoat
Posts: 20
Joined: December 21st, 2016, 12:39 am

Re: Scenario Review: NR 5 - The Pursuit

Post by BillytheBabyGoat » December 21st, 2016, 1:12 am

Content Feedback wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
1. Nightmare.

2. 8

3. Very.

4. Very, nice to find all the extra loyal units.

5. Surviving until I found the healers was pretty painful; fortunately I put an outlaw down the southwest corridor pretty quickly and his vision range showed the first one in the cell so I knew to head down that way. Lost 90% of my first recruited/recalled units stoppering up the other tunnels, but once I had the healers made it much simpler. Surviving in the northern chamber with the spider swarm was also very difficult (Tallin went in with only two Dwarven Lords as guards, who both died holding off the spiders while Tallin got to recruiting thugs) but manageable. Leveled both white mages to light mages before realizing they can die, after that it was fairly simple to send them down passages and wipe things out. Had very little casualties after doing this, but also made out with only about 10,000 gold at the end of the scenario. I also didn't end up clearing anything but the prison, the north, the water passage, and the treasury as I didn't have the manpower to
push through tiny hallways without losing way too many units.

6. 10. Finding all the loyal units is nice, and the multiple front fighting is fun in a controlled fashion like this. Lost many leveled footpads and thugs to lucky hits by Draugr and many many thugs to Malifors honor guard (I popped the door in the north after clearing the spiders hoping to find an exit; I did not, and spent quite a while throwing thugs against the lich defenders).

7. None really; it's a long scenario, but fairly fun. The water passage was a little boring, but since I was doing it while clearing other areas it didn't go so bad.

8. None, surprisingly. Could definitely have restarted after the finish to have a more effective win, but overall didn't go too bad. RNG was pretty nice to me as well, so no loyal units got massacred (Although I didn't level any either save the white mages)

Thrash
Posts: 190
Joined: June 25th, 2010, 1:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review: NR 5 - The Pursuit

Post by Thrash » February 11th, 2018, 5:06 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.12.6, Normal. So much gold it has ceased to be an concern.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7. Until you free the prisoners, you are without healing and villages, which is tough. Then there is the trap of the spider chamber to content with, and really tough lich leader.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear. The path to achieving them isn't obvious.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

The spider chamber. The first time I played (before reading the wiki) I just wandered in and got cut off and slaughtered. I don't know how I supposed to realize I would get cut off and needed an elite force in the room. Especially since a lot of the other tunnels involve triggering recruitment and letting them come to you.

BUG: If you have units where the walls appear to seal off the spider chamber, those units are alive in the wall and can move either way. I backed up a turn and re-loaded when this happened this since I was worried my game would be in some unstable state.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7. Some good novelty but a lot of slogging.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

The dwarves behind the treasury really are too weak to do much. With some risk they can take out the first guard, but then they are too wounded to do anything else without risk of dying. So I'm not sure what the point is of having them there.

When a mage is resurrected they can move/attack again right away, which seems unnatural. At the end of my second play, my mage kept getting killed by the lich, but being resurrected within striking range, so the mage attacked 3-4 times in the same turn, killing the lich a little too easily and quickly.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

After finishing the first time and reading the wiki and learning of the Rod of Justice I figured I had to replay to get the rod as my experience is without it I'd be seriously hampered latter. Will see if that's true, but if so, the player really needs more guidance on both the importance and tactics required for the spider room.
Attachments
NR-The_Pursuit_replay-1.gz
First time I played.
(123.16 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
NR-The_Pursuit_replay.gz
Second time I played.
(133.04 KiB) Downloaded 22 times

octalot
Code Contributor
Posts: 177
Joined: July 17th, 2010, 7:40 pm

Re: Scenario Review: NR 5 - The Pursuit

Post by octalot » May 16th, 2018, 9:05 pm

Feedback on 1.14. I've played this campaign before, at the moment I'm looking at reusing the map for a UMC scenario, so this feedback is from looking at it without playing

Konrad22 has posted several bugs about this scenario: #3114, #3116, #3117

The death-by-spiders chamber now allows at most (even if you know exactly where the triggers are, and put units in the cave-in-walls) at most 4 units to get in, to face 7 or more level 3 spiders. By contrast, the 1.12.6 version of the map has a 15-hex antechamber with a defensible choke-point, and even with that the feedback directly above noted it as the main challenge of the map. The main reason for going in there (the Rod of Justice) is now in the treasury, so there's no reason to take on the spiders, but that just makes it a pointless deathtrap.

NeoNoir
Posts: 1
Joined: May 24th, 2018, 7:18 pm

Re: Scenario Review: NR 5 - The Pursuit

Post by NeoNoir » May 24th, 2018, 7:24 pm

Hi dev team we got some problems on this mission:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

This one singular hex is a heavily flawed design. It allows AI to defend the entry very firmly and produce faster than you can kill their units so they can always keep the path stuck with skeletons. It is literally impossible to beat into this part of the map without some extreme luck.

A suggested fix for this map is this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

These three hexes should be changed to cave or flat terrain so you wont have to grind RNG all day to get into this one

Thanks for the maintenance and update on this campaign

octalot
Code Contributor
Posts: 177
Joined: July 17th, 2010, 7:40 pm

Re: Scenario Review: NR 5 - The Pursuit

Post by octalot » May 24th, 2018, 8:20 pm

Hi NeoNoir,

There's already a fix prepared for Wesnoth 1.14.2, but it would be great if you would download and test the new revision.
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wesno ... ursuit.map

Post Reply