Intelligent fog

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zookeeper
WML Wizard
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Post by zookeeper »

YbeRn00b wrote:
Raemon wrote:In favour, as long as you can easily tell what is 'real' sight and what is memorised and will disappear.
I don't see any real reason why there has to ba a diffrence, please explain.
The reason would be that it would allow you to always see how far your vision extends at the beginning of your next turn, so you may for example easily position your units so that you'll see location x without moving on your next turn.

Mithridates
Posts: 14
Joined: July 26th, 2007, 10:44 am

Post by Mithridates »

I am in favour of the current proposal.
YbeRn00b wrote: "Delay fog updates" should stay the way it is, while the default fog shows everything as described in my first post. Delay fog is about being able to undo movement, while normal fog is about scouting.
I notice that in some levels delay fog does not work.
Now if I am clumsy (and I often am) then this is the single MOST irritating thing because I just sent my level 1 leader to attack a threatening level 4 uberelf and I cannot withdraw him. :evil:
So why not do something about that at the same time?

Kens_Mom
Posts: 23
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 4:22 am

Post by Kens_Mom »

Mithridates wrote: I notice that in some levels delay fog does not work.
Now if I am clumsy (and I often am) then this is the single MOST irritating thing because I just sent my level 1 leader to attack a threatening level 4 uberelf and I cannot withdraw him. :evil:
So why not do something about that at the same time?
That's just something you'll just have to be extra careful of. Being able to undo an attack would be a little cheap. You could keep on undoing an attack until you make all your hits, for instance.

Erk
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Post by Erk »

That's not what he means, Ken's mom. The problem is that when new fog is uncovered, you can't undo your move... so if you click in the wrong place you can wind up unable to back up.

Frankly, and I don't mean to sound harsh, Wesnoth's handling of fog (and to a lesser degree, shroud) is one of the weakest points in the game IMO. This would help a lot... another help would be:
-overriding view distance over water, so that units can see across ponds up to the full limit of their movement/view distance
-allowing units to have a view distance specified that is different from their move (optional: if this field is unfilled, view distance = move)
-possibly allow view distance over specific terrains to be different from movement rate over that terrain, so that (for example) a unit can be made capable of seeing over impassable mountains or through cave walls (again, by default the movement rate values would be used)

Right now, the system doesn't allow much tweaking for view/fog/shroud at all. It's impossible, to my limited knowledge, to create a unit that can't see far unless that unit also can't move, or a slow-moving, far-seeing unit, or a unit that can see well in caves even if it can't move well in them.

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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper »

Erk wrote:That's not what he means, Ken's mom. The problem is that when new fog is uncovered, you can't undo your move... so if you click in the wrong place you can wind up unable to back up.
I'm guessing he actually meant that in some scenarios moving triggers some events (enemies spawning, etc), which makes you unable to undo a move which you thought you could, and delaying fog updates doesn't affect that in any way. You can be happily moving units around with delay fog updates on and think you'll be able to undo it all, but then accidentally step on a location which makes something happen in the scenario and boom, you're unable to undo and might have your units in all the wrong places.

MDG
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Location: UK

Sight points?

Post by MDG »

Erk wrote:Frankly, and I don't mean to sound harsh, Wesnoth's handling of fog (and to a lesser degree, shroud) is one of the weakest points in the game IMO. This would help a lot... another help would be:
-overriding view distance over water, so that units can see across ponds up to the full limit of their movement/view distance
-allowing units to have a view distance specified that is different from their move (optional: if this field is unfilled, view distance = move)
-possibly allow view distance over specific terrains to be different from movement rate over that terrain, so that (for example) a unit can be made capable of seeing over impassable mountains or through cave walls (again, by default the movement rate values would be used)

Right now, the system doesn't allow much tweaking for view/fog/shroud at all. It's impossible, to my limited knowledge, to create a unit that can't see far unless that unit also can't move, or a slow-moving, far-seeing unit, or a unit that can see well in caves even if it can't move well in them.
You are not the only one who would like to see more flexibility in this regard. There were a few recent threads around this subject area by Turin and Playtoms. Here's one which includes a link to the other.

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