Fantasy creatures/historic units not in Wesnoth

[Edward V Riley]

Giant and related Faction:

Cloud Giant: A giant race that believes itself superior to all other giants (save for storm giants). Usually neutral good or neutral evil.
Fire giant: A militaristic giant that looks somewhat like a huge dwarf. Based on Jotun and Surtr. Usually lawful evil.
Frost giant: A giant who lives in areas frozen year-round and participates in raids. Based on rime (frost) giant. Usually chaotic evil.
Hill giant: A selfish giant inhabiting hilly regions. Usually chaotic evil.
Stone giant: A shy giant that is nevertheless dangerous when aroused to anger. Usually neutral.
Storm giant: A gentle giant that lives mainly on cloud islands. Usually chaotic good

Cyclops- the cyclops is a giant based upon the Cyclopses of Greek mythology and Roman mythology

Ettin- a giant-like creature. An ettin has two heads, each of which is capable of independent thought, and each controls one arm for attacking.

Firbolg- A firbolg is a reclusive giant that prefers to avoid contact with other sentient races

LARGER than human type creatures suggested.

Gnolls- Part man/part hyena

Minotaurs- part man/part bull

[ael193]

in most of the old horror movies/spoofs( abbot and costello's monster movies are my favorites) the werewolves are often the enemys of the vampire, and are goodguys while human and just a beserk stupid wolf thing when transformed.

[waw]

I see werewolves being in a Knalga like faction. Give them someone in the trees or something.

Nobody has suggested something for them with thorough thought. Having them human in day and wolf in night violates the KISS principle. I should think a pure race of them would be good and lead to interesting ideas. I did see that one is under production, I'm hoping for the best.


Vamps same thing. Before somebody watches Blade and posts an idea they should re-read Dracula and get the original modern Vampire. Before Bram Stoker Vamps were extremely different and not much different than your run of the mill bad guy spirit. Now they have powers and all but are a lot different than the NOW modern Vamps.

For example:

Vamps could be out in the day, only without their powers.
They could only sleep on their native soil.
Could transform into fog/mist, possibly ash, a wolf, and a bat.
The stake through the heart was only to keep them from moving, you had to chop off their head. (Usually turn it upside down and stuff it with Garlic so the won't come back from the dead...again).

Blade and other movies have added many bad things. Personally I would like to see a vampire unit like this:

When moving, it transforms into an owl or bat, and flies places. Like the drakes, it lands before it attacks. It would have a berserk like attack of transforming into a wolf and repeatedly attacking. It would have a drain attack (obv). And some other magic ranged attack, or use a weapon. The Wolf attack would be a neat magic/berserk attack. He could have hypnotize as well. Not sure how that would play in. As for evasion, very high. When attacked, the defense animation would be the Vamp being fog and moving around the enemy. Rarely would they get hurt.

And you could add in a +50% bonus at night instead of the 25, and a -50 in the day.

Would make for a powerful, yet highly flawed, character. A double edged sword if you will.


For those of you unaware:

KISS= Keep it simple stupid.

No offense, it just seems to be what this game is about. Anything implemented must be stupid. The above idea is simple because it is just animations.

[cretin]

that is a rather interesting idea... i especially like the bat movement. could be a problem with 1 hex moves though

[waw]

I don't see how the one hex thing gets involved. Somebody could just use the vampire bat movement and image. Just before he moves he transformers. He could even be a skirmisher with that.

I could code this, I know that. But I can't draw... any takers?

[Edward V Riley]

Let's see, vampires also had the ability to turn into wolf or mist. Now, mist could be where he can "escape" from battle, or seep into areas others can't go, and wolf would be simply a powerful wolf form where movement would probably be it's asset.

Which begs to mind, what about shape changing Druidic Rangers being a playable type to put on the loyalists(which need some more units more than the rest). Perhaps, once they get to Level 2, they've a choice of changing into a bear, wolf, or hawk(or something else). At level 3, extra attacks are made with tooth or claw. At Level 4, the being can choose to become that creature "permanently" and will recieve some special benefits.

It's just a thought.

Support units: These units would be basically peasants in combat, but when next to your good fighting units, impart extra strengths

1- blacksmith- This unit would impart "sharpness of weapons". For every blacksmith near your attacking/defending units, you get a +2 to your damage

2-Bowyer/Fletcher-This unit would impart "Stronger arrows/bolts". For every one of these near you, your ranged attacks gain +2 damage upon hitting.

3-Groom- This unit, when next to a horse unit, imparts an extra space of movement when the horse unit moves. The groom will be left behind of course, as it's movement is not very good.

4-Hostler/Innkeeper- this unit, when next to your villages, will impart an extra +2 recovery of hitpoints.

...Now this one is just for fun, so don't take it seriously... Camp Ho..I mean Camp follower, saps +2 strength from every unit that partakes of their service.

Each of these units would be level 0 and have about the same attacks as a peasant. They CAN upgrade to Level 1 and have the word Master attached to the front of their names, with a +1 to their services added. For example, the Master Groom would impart a +2 to movement. The Groom could also be called a Squire.

Please tell me what you think.

[waw]

i think characters that add to the stats are a good idea.

As for the Vamp, I would think they should have a berserk melee attack in which they are a wolf.

And mist for defense animation.

But as for the druid, I think its a wonderful idea. Perhaps like a ranger that uses a short sickle for close range and magic or arrows for long range? For them I would suggest a level cycle.

They are at level three... or whatever, and have a very short exp gauge. When they level up, they can choose several different animals to turn into. When one of the animals, they are still level three, have short exp gauge and level up really easily. Then they can transform into a different animal (from same selection) or back into the person.

This gives you THE most options on what to do in my honest opinion. The Druids venerated the idea of being able to transform into a variety of animals and never have to be the same thing. Being stuck in a final form is considered a punishment for them.

[Edward V Riley]

I'm nothing if not flexible about ideas I put forth. It's what I excell at, coming up with ideas. All I need, is someone with better eyesight to implement them.

A lot of stories I've read about druids and shapeshifting involve them sometimes getting over enamored with their other form and staying that way permanently. (Truthfully, I find druids the most boring class in D & D.)

I'm glad you like the support units. I've been racking my brain trying to find types of units to add to the loyalist factions. As you can tell we've found a ton to add to the orcs and undead, but few with the others.

For the Dwarves and the Knalga Alliance we could put gnomes and their inventions into the mix to add to their unit numbers(let's face it, it can get dull as all get out to play the dwarves, even though I like using them tactically). Gnomes can often be portrayed as using inventions(which some work, but most don't). A Gnome steam engine could be the "horse" type unit the knalga alliance could use. The fact it might break down every third turn wouldn't deter from finally having something mobile to add to their arsenal. The unit could be called an Iron Horse or Iron Cavalry and advance to Steel Horse or cavalry then to Mithril Horse or cavalry.

I'm trying not to implement guns into this setting so a "Gnomish gunlike invention" is out of the question. But instead of the crossbows dwarves in fantasy often carry.(except here) they could perhaps use the handheld arbalests(players will argue these are massive ballista but they're not looking far enough into the history of the weapon, they were MAINLY the smaller kind) which operated with a crank system(this is where the gnomes come in). Call them Gnome crossbowmen, then Gnome Arbalests, and finally at level 3, Gnome ballista.

Ok, so there's possible addition ideas to the Knalga alliance. Now to Rebels.

Truthfully, rebels have enough types and variety of units.

Drakes, with the saurians, also have enough. Without them, they're too small a faction.

Loyalists, would have to use other types of units available during medieval times, as the units they use now are primarily of that period. We'd have to go to other parts of the world for this, but not far eastern as that would be too different.

Light Cavalry(yes, I love the classical piece, the Light Cavalry Overture) is not represented. These units would be those who use a sword or spear for melee(not near as much damage as a horseman or cavalry unit) plus have some sort of ranged attack(I'm thinking the curved Hungarian bows the Mongols used from horseback). Their attacks wouldn't be that great, similar to the elven outriders, but would have a lot better movement, except in trees. These units would be cheaper to purchase as they don't have that expensive armor the others use. THey would primarily be a hit and run type unit. I'd also suggest they get no defensive advantage in towns or they'd just become a cheaper ripoff of elvish outriders. Advances to Shock Rider, then to Thunder Rider(no, they don't get a thunder attack).

camel troops would also be a different type of unit, same as elephant units(I've heard that drawing these elephant units has been impossible so far, but look at Centurion: Defender of Rome for ideas as it uses a small elephant unit)

Anyway, like I've said before, this is just food for thought.

[MDG]

Edgar, before you go any further with this thread, may I ask something?

What is/are the game play reasons/arguments/justifications for adding any new units and/or unit lines to the existing mainline default era factions?

What is currently lacking with the default era game play that adding new unit and/or unit lines will solve?

From your posts it seems that to you it is obvious that default era is in need of more units/unit lines and yet I must be missing something... Can you be so kind as to help me out here?

[irrevenant]

Using this thread to brainstorm new creatures that might make nifty units is fine.

If you want to suggest that there should be a change to a specific mainline faction to add a unit, please make it a different thread. That's a highly contentious suggestion (since mainline factions are so carefully balanced already) with the potential to derail this thread.

Thanks.

[Edward V Riley]

I'm not suggesting changes to mainline play. Where in this have I stated as much?

THe benefits of new units:

1- Changes in the tactical nature of the gameplay.

2- Variety stimulates the intellectual capacity

3- Encourages creativity, instead of stagnation.

4- Games evolve or die. I truly enjoy a Turn based strategy where people all over the world can contribute. But if you keep posing more and more limits to their creativity, they'll seek that elsewhere. Keep that in mind. Creation of units, if done right, can do so without violating the KISS principle.

***This is why I'm carrying on this discussion. I've seen great ideas from other players in here, and as long as we keep them honest, the creation won't get out of hand. Let's say someone creates a great werewolf character but makes it too powerful to be realistic. It'll die in the bad unit graveyard. But if they pose what if questions in a thread like this they've a better chance at making it a believable and acceptable character.

****I've seen people post ideas/drawings in these type threads and recieve nothing but unconstructive sarcasm with no reasoning behind it from other players, usually forum mods. What good does that accomplish? It kills the creative spirit and enthusiasm, and makes for a player with hurt feelings deciding Wesnoth is just not the place for him/her. You can be critical without being downright rude about it.

5- A unit proposing thread like this serves to see just what players like or dislike. Have you noticed a lack of other threads describing a new unit coming out since this one has? That's because they all have a place to post rather than creating a new thread for each new idea.

6- New units also mean more storyline possibilities. Think a great story isn't necessary? Go play the Human Campaign or Attack of the Undead.

7- New units can make a humdrum campaign a little more exciting. How many orcs and that faction can you slay before you start to realize that you're not doing anything different? Wow!! I just killed my 100th zombie in a row. I'll bet 101 will be super tough!!!" oooo, this one is in the trees!!!...oh wait..he died just as quick...."

Games must evolve or die a slow and painful death surrounded by only diehards. Granted, that evolution must be slow, but it has to occur at some point or you risk eternal stagnation.

[Edward V Riley]

Using this thread to brainstorm new creatures that might make nifty units is fine.

If you want to suggest that there should be a change to a specific mainline faction to add a unit, please make it a different thread. That's a highly contentious suggestion (since mainline factions are so carefully balanced already) with the potential to derail this thread.

Thanks.

Irrevenant, I don't want "drastic" changes to mainline factions. This is a thread to brainstorm. If the idea has genuine merit, maybe then, and only then can it GRADUALLY be introduced into mainline play(After every one of us puts our two cents worth in of course). I would recommend a player putting a new type into one of their own campaigns, then maybe letting a few others know how it went and let it snowball from there.

This thread is a sounding board for ideas. I've seen a few that truly look stupid to me come up in here, but instead of being rude, I try to find ways to make it a better idea.

Don't worry about me making this a vote for drastic changes. You worry too much. WHich tells me you truly love this game, as do I. If we keep the creators honest, by pointing out the problems and ways to fix it, then we can evolve the game without wrecking it.

But one thing I've learned. It's best to let people put those ideas out there rather than keep them to themselves. Maybe it seems I'm going too fast with the suggestions, but that's my nature. over 25 drastic changes occurred in the last game my ideas were posted in(Runescape) that were my ideas and brainstorming. That's out of the 200 I proposed. You put the ideas in the forum, thrash them out there, and if they're workable and liked by a majority, you give them a go. I'm not saying that the success of that game is due to me, but it IS due to players like me. Most of the best ideas in the past two years in that game came from the Suggestions forums from players, not designers. The Result? The game has evolved from limited play by about 50k users, to a large world with 1million users.

[Maeglin Dubh]

Unlocked, on the condition that this thread lives up to it's name. We have a policy of one idea, one thread, so if you want to add, say, a cave troll to the mainline undead faction, make that another thread. This thread is a minor exception to the rule, in that several ideas under one heading are combined here, but try to keep the ideas under the heading of fantasy creatures that could be included in Wesnoth.

Understand that the results of the brainstorming will likely never make it into mainline, but some faction developer may fall in love with an idea he sees here. Of course, given the history of UME's, that's not even much guarantee of it making it anywhere, but at least it's something.

[Edward V Riley]

Thank you very much for unlocking this thread.

Yes, to answer Irrevenant and anyone else concerned, I DO NOT want this to become a "put this in mainline now" type thread. I truly don't want that. I want the ideas to be discussed and tweaked here. If an idea truly has mainline merit, this isn't where it's going to become so. This is a sounding board for the unit ideas. Nothing more.

Take dragons for an example. Yes, dragons are a mainstay in fantasy games. But look how boring they get when overused. Gets to the point you see a dragon and yawn. TO me, they make a great character if used rarely , like how they're used in Wesnoth. Yes, I know there are literally dozens of different types of dragons from the weak to the mighty, but they lose something if they become commonplace.

Mainline factions are almost sacrosanct for Wesnoth. The balance for their creation has been so painstakingly thought and rethought that any idea that might upset that balance is immediately given a warning from the longtime players. I guess I should have listened more to their criticism in that regard. Remember, balance is the key.


I also DO NOT want Wesnoth to become a Turn based RPG. Proposing level 5 and higher characters can be fun but ONLY IN A DISCUSSION, not in mainline play. THe same goes with items proposed. I'm one of those that looks at D & D and I truly despise the tons of items in that. To me, a "great" item becomes more than the player using it. I always have liked the minor things that can add to a quest or character, but doesn't dominate them. ( I"ve a +5 ego sword that can shoot 7 D20 fireballs every turn and can create a gold bar every five seconds!!!" great but what's your character's name?... I've forgotten.)

I do believe games must evolve or eventually die out. But this should be done slowly with a large measure of restraint and discussion. If the game evolves too fast, it loses it's "feel". I know that doesn't sound like much of a defense, but if you think on it, you'll feel the same. [/b]

[Edward V Riley]

These following ideas are based off creatures in the Sword of Truth series. These are listed merely as idea prototypes as I'm almost dead sure they're trademarked. I merely list them because they "sound cool" and perhaps Wesnoth ideas can be adapted from them. (After reading every book on this, I'm now excited that it is rumored to become a TV miniseries directed by Sam Raimi... I'm guessing on Sci-Fi).


Calthrops are a nightmarish creature, with fur and claws and fangs, a creature of snarl and snap with a gaping maw that lives in the Midlands. Its earsplitting cry is deep, savage, and vicious and its mouth stretches wide with every roar. Its furious glowing red eyes are set deep in its skull. It has huge sharp, wet, snapping teeth. It has a blunt snout, corded muscles, and amazing strength. It is twice the size of a man.

Gars are a large, aggressive predator that can be found throughout the New World, originating from D'Hara. Gars stand on two feet, like a man, and come in two varieties - long-tailed and short-tailed. Long-tailed gars are about a head taller than a tall man and weigh about 3 times as much (short-tailed gars are considerably larger). Short-tailed gars are more fierce, larger, and much more intelligent than their long-tailed cousins.

Grippers are a small hump-shaped creature that almost looks like a rock. It has gray armor bands interlocked all across its back and jagged spikes all around the bottom edge.

Heart hounds are about twice the size of a wolf with large barrel chests. Their heads are somewhat flat with a large snout full of sharp teeth. They have large rounded ears with exceptional hearing. They are tan, with short fur, like that on the back of a deer.

Mriswith are former wizards that were transformed by use of additive and subtractive magic, and thus gave up conventional use of their gift. They were first created during the Great Wizard War 3000 years earlier, and were used by the wizards from the Old World.

For use as weapons against the wizards of New World, they are serpent like creatures that wear a cloak that can make them or other wizards with both sides (additive and subtractive) of the gift blend entirely with their surroundings. This cloak also makes the wearer undetectable by those with only the additive side of the gift but can still be detected by wizards with the subtractive side, making everyone vulnerable to attack. Mriswith carry a three-bladed knife called a Yabree in each hand to disembowel their victims, who never see them coming. They are lightning quick, fierce as fighting and relentless in killing.


Nambles is a large, Underworld creature possessing a humanoid body, with fur starting at its hips and thickening lower down. Its head is described as being a "horror of anger and fangs". Apparently, the Namble has the ability to absorb a wizard's magic from an object known as a quillion, which stores the magic when the wizard is skinned alive, where the wizard's power "bleeds" out.

Shinga are creatures of the underworld. It is a fearsome beast with powerful hind legs and piercing brown eyes. Steam comes from its flared nostrils.

Screelings are an undead creature. They are squat, hunched over creatures armed with long, wicked claws instead of fingers on each hand. Its eyes are black with a golden glitter

Screelings have a supernatural speed and strength, and can scale sheer surfaces and ceilings. The screeling laughs incessantly, even if being hacked to pieces. Screelings are unaffected by most magical attacks; setting one on fire only makes it more deadly. Weapons of any sort will damage its body, though axes are most effective.