Dwarf Sniper and Pistolier

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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager » May 27th, 2005, 10:09 pm

Tippsey wrote:So thundersticks are boomsticks
No, they're thundersticks. No more, no less.
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Post by Tippsey » May 27th, 2005, 10:38 pm

So your bsing since you can't handle discprencies in your thinking...right boss.
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Post by Tippsey » May 27th, 2005, 10:39 pm

And if there not guns then they must be a miraculous invention of the dwarfs, allowing them to be accurate since dwarves are masters of the smith....allowing marksman.
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turin
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Post by turin » May 27th, 2005, 11:10 pm

They are thundersticks not guns for a very important reason. Search for all of the past flamewars on "guns in wesnoth" to see why. ;) EP is making sure we don't call it a gun so that debate doesn't spring up again, as it is prone to do.

However, IMHO they should basically be considered guns, but VERY EARLY ones. Think 13-15th century, not 18th. So nothing very accurate, and probably nothing shotgun-like.
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Post by Casual User » May 28th, 2005, 12:23 am

Good afternoon!

1. Is it just me, or is this showing signs of a possible flame war?

2. Dibblethewrecker said:"second, snipers while rare, should be no more rare than elvish sharpshooters". Not quite true. See, in the race descriptions, elves are specifically said to be skilled with the bow, while there is no such mention for humans or dwarves. See, elves are, in many fantasy games, natural-born sharpshooters, and it seems to be so in Wesnoth too. But, tell you what, there's no reason to believe dwarves have less skill with range weapons than humans, so let's give the same proportion of 'marksman' troops among dwarf missile troops as among human missile troops...

3. Who cares what thundersticks are called?

4. Dibblethewrecker/Tippsey, what do you think about a double barrel thunderstick instead of two pistols (see my previous post).

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Post by Tippsey » May 28th, 2005, 12:24 am

but guns back then were shotgun like many pellets some gunpowder and you hoped you peppered the enemy to death today's shotgun... more refined belets and gunpowder in shells shot off hoping you peper/blow a chunk out of whoever your shooting at and the 1 shhot could easily reflect this as the thunderer is running closer to his target delaying him from ever getting the second shot.
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Post by dtw » May 28th, 2005, 5:09 am

CyberJack wrote:
dibblethewrecker wrote:You certainly aim pistols more than the shoort from the hip thunderer style and you'd have dual reload experience...
Shoot from the hip? A dwarf? Must be aiming for the enemy's knees then :) I've always thought of the thunderer-line weapons as more like SLMs (shoulder-launched mortars), hence justifying the huge damage (and slow rate-of-fire).
well, look at the graphics, it's double-handed weapon held at waist/hip height when fired IIRC

um - re the rifle - see here:

http://www.floridareenactorsonline.com/ ... arrell.htm - the relevant paragraph begins:

Truthfully, only a few new designs

i can't paste it cos they guy who wrote it is a tight ass! basically if you adhere to the "wesnoth is not reality but follow human technical inovation history" it basically says "no" on rifles - far too modern

i still feel that the invention of rifling is not a major technical feat - i wonder what came first in human history, really deep mining or guns? hmmmmm

i see also that dragonsticks are arcane - presumably that mean VERY old - not much on R+D then the dwarfs?

double barreled weapon just seems far too "doom" to me!
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Post by Disto » May 28th, 2005, 7:06 am

The graphics are no base you can hold your argument on, as they are being replaced.
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Post by dtw » May 28th, 2005, 7:42 am

until they are i can i think :)
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Post by Elvish_Pillager » May 28th, 2005, 9:23 am

Seriously --- can we STOP arguing about realism? We don't even know if the thunderstick has a barrel! Why, it might be a magical device which, when pointed at an opponent, causes a large icicle to appear above their head and fall! (Were that the case, there would still be a reason not to give it marksman, but that's beside the point.)

If it was indeed an early firearm, it would be terribly unrealistic. It would be impossible to carry in one hand, as the Thunderer does; It would not take so long to load that it was only a third as fast as a crossbow; It would be likely to get jammed and cease to work in the middle of a battle; etc.

Thus, it is NOT a gun. It is simply a feature of Wesnoth's combat, which, considering its lack of definition, should be expanded purely on gameplay terms.
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Post by Tippsey » May 28th, 2005, 6:36 pm

Hmm well you want evidence as to why it could have marksman because as is the thunderer is a rarely used piece of junk the dwarves have. And don't tell me fire damage, it then makes them worse against drakes making them even worse at balancing the dwarves with everything.
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Post by Disto » May 28th, 2005, 7:42 pm

Could we perhaps redisgn the weapon used by the thunderer to make it less gunnish, maybe base it on the crossbow, heres an example of what i'm thinking off.
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Post by turin » May 28th, 2005, 7:57 pm

Could we please get off the subject of whether the thunderer line has a gun or not? It has thunderstick, which looks similar to a 14th century handcannon. That's not going to change. There have been numerous flame wars over guns in wesnoth in the past. The results shouldn't just be thrown aside; if they are, we're just going to have those flame wars again.

(Those results were - No race other than the dwarves should have a gun, but the dwarves should. However, the guns the dwarves have can't be called "guns", because the technology is not understood by the in-game characters, and using "guns" implies the people in the game would think of them the same way we think of guns, which they don't. They think it is some kind of "arcane dwarvish magic", and the dwarves encourage this. Plus, most of the dwarves don't understand it either, only the more intelligent ones.)
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Post by Tippsey » May 28th, 2005, 8:30 pm

So then how can we justify changing the thunderer when all changes in game seem to come through bickerings of realism more then anything....Truly this leaves it at a crossroads for any change for the thunderer...perhaps the change of graphics or scrapping of the model would be for ethe best, that way such talk of realism can be changed so it can be debated fantasy wise and game balance wise....
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Post by Kamikaze » June 5th, 2005, 3:05 am

Here soemthign funny. this is a fantasy world right?
Based o na world differnt from ours right?
Well then why the hell couldnt dwarves do this?

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