Den of Thieves 2.0 (tactical stealth mod)

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demario
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Re: Den of Thieves (new MP stealth campaign system)

Post by demario »

Bob_The_Mighty wrote: June 20th, 2020, 12:39 am Den of Thieves 0.2 brings [...] countless bug fixes. Hopefully we've addressed everything players have reported on this thread so far.
Hi Bob, thanks for the new version. I can confirm that most of the issues we met in version 0.1.0 are fixed now.
It seems the bombs are erasing the book image (which make sense) but the recon can still be done.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote: Rescued Characters
Rescue missions now provide an opportunity to gain a unique character with a special array of skills.
These are some really great additions in the new version. The new free units are really special and it makes us want to "catch them all" :)
About them two issues:
  • Faraday the Dune Rover is spotting trap in white. It makes traps still visible after a trapper has disarmed them (but inactive)
  • Jake the Dwarvish Guardsman's stoner special ability is throwing a WML error when he tries to petrify himself
Again none of these problems prevent from enjoying the campaign which is really fun.
They might even been already fixed in your version!
Good job from you and jb. Cheers.
Attachments
scout trap.Rescue Mission.gz
Faraday the Dune Rover spots trap in white
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self petrify.Rescue Mission.gz
Jake the Dwarvish Guardsman throws a WML error
(106.51 KiB) Downloaded 315 times
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Weeksy
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Re: Den of Thieves 0.2 (multiplayer stealth campaign)

Post by Weeksy »

Figured I'd look into Wesnoth again after what feels like a decade... Glad to see you're still making maps!

I ran into a bug where a prisoner couldn't petrify himself, gave a bug saying the lua code specified 'adjacent'
If enough people bang their heads against a brick wall, The brick wall will fall down
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Bob_The_Mighty
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Re: Den of Thieves 0.2 (multiplayer stealth campaign)

Post by Bob_The_Mighty »

[/quote]
Weeksy wrote: July 14th, 2020, 10:47 am Figured I'd look into Wesnoth again after what feels like a decade... Glad to see you're still making maps!
Wow, welcome back Weeksy. That's a name I thought I'd never see again! I'm pleased you came back, and jumped straight into playing this. I hope to catch you online for a game...
demario wrote: July 10th, 2020, 11:44 amHi Bob, thanks for the new version. I can confirm that most of the issues we met in version 0.1.0 are fixed now.
Thanks again for the saves. Both those problems will be fixed in the next version.
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
demario
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Re: Den of Thieves 0.2 (multiplayer stealth campaign)

Post by demario »

Bob_The_Mighty wrote: July 15th, 2020, 11:18 pm Both those problems will be fixed in the next version.
Cool! Another little issue about prisoner:
  • Eronix the Dune Herbalist keeps charmed loyalists in recall list for future maps.
First save, including the recall list, the second one the save of the scenario the unit was charmed from.
You might have noticed that already! Cheers.
Attachments
recall spearman.Recon Mission.gz
Eronix keeps loyalist for future maps
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charmed spearman.Recon Mission.gz
Eronix the Dune Herbalist charmed loyalist
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demario
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Fun with bombs before it disappears

Post by demario »

A short replay with fun with bombs before they get changed (into a joke :P ).
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Raid_Mission_Turn_6_(7044).bz2
Fun with bombs
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Bob_The_Mighty
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Re: Den of Thieves 0.2 (multiplayer stealth campaign)

Post by Bob_The_Mighty »

There is a brand new update to this campaign. Den of Thieves 1.0 is now available on the add-ons server. You may notice that we've skipped a few numbers (the last update was 0.2), but this is because we now consider the campaign to be stable, polished and more or less complete. However, that's not to say that we're going to stop working on it!

This new version incorporates numerous tweaks and bugfixes (including many suggested by players) and a few major rule changes. We've also drastically expanded the number of scenarios - there are over 80 randomised maps now! Here's a summary of what's new...

Loot Drops
Previously, if you killed a royal captain you'd find a key. Now captains drop randomised loot: you may find a key, or a potion or a flower. The key works as before and allows you to unlock any door. The potion doubles the drinker's movement for a turn, allows them to ignore ZoC and gives trap immunity (this is similar to the old sprint ability, which has now been removed). The flower allows you to become invisible for a turn, on any terrain, at any time of day. A unit can only carry one item, and they are all one-use.

Bombs are Back!
We felt bombers were not holding their own, so we've changed the way they work. Now you detonate bombs by rightclicking on the bomb itself, rather than the bomber unit. This allows you to blow them up individually, as and when you want. It's also possible for a player to detonate a bomb planted by another player. Again, this adds flexibility. In addition, bombs no longer alert every unit on the map. Instead, only royal units within 3 hexes of the explosion are alerted. This allows you to use them much more freely and creates more interesting opportunities to blow stuff up. Watch out though, royal units are also alerted when they move adjacent to rubble caused by a destroyed wall...

Extra XP
Your units are now awarded extra XP in the mission report for disarming traps and breaking alarms. This adds another mini objective to each mission, as you have to weigh up whether it's worth taking the risk to properly clean up the royal defences.

Optional Game Modes
Finding the game too easy? Desperate for a longer campaign? Well, now there is a 'hardcore mode' which raises the difficulty level substantially and sets the renown target at 15. This can be enabled in the 'custom options' tab on the game set-up screen (see the screenshot below). There is also an option for those roguelike purists who would prefer their starting units to have randomised abilities.

Any problems, let us know. We shall continue to add new maps - and all game ideas are welcome. Happy thieving!
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These game modes are found under the 'custom options' tab in the game creation screen.
These game modes are found under the 'custom options' tab in the game creation screen.
Bombs are now detonated by rightclicking on the bomb itself. Notice how the sergeant is alerted (because he is within 3 hexes), but the Heavy Infantryman is blissfully unaware.
Bombs are now detonated by rightclicking on the bomb itself. Notice how the sergeant is alerted (because he is within 3 hexes), but the Heavy Infantryman is blissfully unaware.
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
dwarftough
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Re: Den of Thieves 1.0 (new major update)

Post by dwarftough »

Stumbled upon a kind of a problem (if it's not intended ofc). Rescue mission, the prisoner is a dune burner with 28hp locked in a prison with tentacles, they kill him right on the second move and we can't do anything about it
Co-founder and current maintainer of IsarFoundation, Afterlife Rated and overall Wesnoth Autohost Project
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vghetto
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Re: Den of Thieves 1.0 (new major update)

Post by vghetto »

Hi,

I'm creating a singleplayer fork of den of thieves. Unless the original authors have an objection to this, I'll be uploading it to 1.15. Otherwise it will be github (eventually, once I find my email password to verify my github login :( ).

Edit: Oh, the fork won't conflict in any way with DOT. The fork will be called Den of Thieves SP and it has its own path Den_Of_Thieves_SP. You'd be able to install and play both, no problem.

Edit2: Uploaded to 1.14/1.15. Please send me private messages if you encounter any problems or bugs with my fork. Don't post them here. Thank you.

Edit3: About world map gold.

Since this is originally a MP mod with 3 sides, the gold in the world map gets divided by 3. The gold for only one of the 3 sides is then shown.
When you go into the den or mission, the gold from each side gets accumulated back together.

Edit4: Fork renamed to Marauding Thieves You can use that thread to post bug reports with the single player version.
Last edited by vghetto on February 5th, 2021, 9:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Atreides
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Re: Den of Thieves 1.0 (new major update)

Post by Atreides »

Hi, new player here. Saw it and immediately downloaded it, stealth is something I really think is cool. (Frodo gimme back MY ring!)

Found a TYPO in the very first config screen it says Theif (3 times!). No bugs I think.

3 scenarios down so far and the attrition on my little thieves is brutal. If randomly moved next to they just croak.

Assasinate is cool except I learned the hard way (by losing several level 0's) that it only works once (as stated but who can remember every detail with all the new stuff...) although it really helps to get rid of problem enemies you can't avoid.

I've learned that 2 stealth options require massive patience (nightstalk/skulk) to use.

One thing that is hard to understand is how gold works. I seem to have different amounts on the world map than when I start a battle.

It really has an amazing Commando Raid feel to it. Still learning that it's not all stealth contrary to the advertisment... Sometimes it is best to engage in brutal combat! (Bit misleading advertising copy is my point... :)
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Bob_The_Mighty
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Re: Den of Thieves 1.0 (new major update)

Post by Bob_The_Mighty »

vghetto wrote: December 8th, 2020, 8:20 pmI'm creating a singleplayer fork of den of thieves. Unless the original authors have an objection to this, I'll be uploading it to 1.15.
Nice one, that's fine with us. What code did you have to change to make it work as a SP campaign? What changes did you make to balance it? What did you have to change to make it work on Wesnoth 1.15? Are you planning to update the SP version if we put out another version? (We could look at incorporating a SP mode into, if it's relatively straight forward.)

Atreides wrote: December 18th, 2020, 12:05 amHi, new player here. Saw it and immediately downloaded it, stealth is something I really think is cool. (Frodo gimme back MY ring!)
Glad you've been enjoying this. How many players were you doing it with? 1p, 2p or 3p? Do you think a standalone tutorial scenario would be useful? Would you have tried that first?
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
vghetto
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Re: Den of Thieves 1.0 (new major update)

Post by vghetto »

Bob_The_Mighty wrote: December 29th, 2020, 7:26 pm Nice one, that's fine with us.
Thank you!
Bob_The_Mighty wrote: December 29th, 2020, 7:26 pm What changes did you make to balance it?
None.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote: December 29th, 2020, 7:26 pm What did you have to change to make it work on Wesnoth 1.15?
Nothing.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote: December 29th, 2020, 7:26 pm Are you planning to update the SP version if we put out another version?
Yes!
Bob_The_Mighty wrote: December 29th, 2020, 7:26 pm (We could look at incorporating a SP mode into, if it's relatively straight forward.)
This is up to you guys. I don't want the SP mode to become a distraction.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote: December 29th, 2020, 7:26 pm What code did you have to change to make it work as a SP campaign?
I had to change 100 files, most of them were very minor changes. I did most of them using sed.

The idea of the SP campaign is very simple.
At the start of any scenario move the leaders of side 2 and side 3 over to side 1.
Move the gold of side 2 and side 3 over to side 1.
(This was done by injecting [event]name=start into mission_events.cfg, den.cfg and *_start.cfg)

During the scenario, make sure any earned gold isn't divided by 3.

At the end of the scenario, return the leaders to their respective sides. (side 2, side 3)
Divide side 1 gold among the three sides.
(This was done by injecting [event]name=victory)

During the missions, the last leader to reach the edge will be the one that appears on the world map.

That's it.

Change details:
Spoiler:
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Atreides
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Re: Den of Thieves 1.0 (new major update)

Post by Atreides »

Bob_The_Mighty wrote: December 29th, 2020, 7:26 pm
Atreides wrote: December 18th, 2020, 12:05 amHi, new player here. Saw it and immediately downloaded it, stealth is something I really think is cool. (Frodo gimme back MY ring!)
Glad you've been enjoying this. How many players were you doing it with? 1p, 2p or 3p? Do you think a standalone tutorial scenario would be useful? Would you have tried that first?
Hmmm confused. I was not given a choice. There are 2 characters/sides I play so I suppose it would be 2p. I don't think a tutorial is needed as the initial cave one starts in allows one to practice anyways. More explanations of how things work though are always appreciated though. I'm accustomed to reading 100 page rule books before I could play my classic old board wargames, so the more the better. :)
P.S. Boy am I confused I was thinking of Altaz... I just played some more and I have 3 chars on 1 side. Hmmm so I had a choice to use less than all 3? I did not know that.
P.P.S. I made some VERY poor ability choices for the 3. They sounded cool when I picked them but in practice they're hopeless. A nightstalking assassin, ambushing trapper (he's good actually) and a concealing bomber... YECH. A ambushing assassin and a concealing lockpick would be better. nightstalk/skulk are too limiting and bomber is almost useless.

Big fan of your stuff btw, I have yet to win one yet though, I guess I find them all quite challenging.
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Spannerbag
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Feedback on SP version

Post by Spannerbag »

Just finished the SP campaign, a well crafted and polished bit of code. Nice job to everyone who put in the time and effort producing it, much appreciated.

Found the later stages challenging (as intended) as every enemy unit was level 3+. Ended up recruiting a lot of expendable level zero assassins to (try to - didn't always get useful stealth abilities) kill them off cheaply. Skirmishers with bombs are very useful: one bomb can achieve several objectives at once with proper placement... but I only had 2 of them (one was a leader - both, eventually, made it to Assassin :) ).

Had a few thoughts re. abilities that might add some enjoyment to the game (apologies to Bob and jb if you already thought of these). Not sure about the names, these are only suggestions.

Farsight or Unfog
A sort of "ranged peek" that allows a unit to peek any hex on the map. This would lift fog (but not shroud - so cannot view shrouded areas) in that hex + radius 1. I see it as working once per turn like observe or spot traps. Would have to be a "special" (i.e. not available to regular recruits) as it is better than peek...

Farlight or Unshroud
Allows a unit to unshroud (but not unfog) any hex + radius 1 on the map once per turn. Would have, I guess, need to be a "special" (i.e. not available to regular recruits) as it would otherwise allow mass-unshrouding of maps...
Alternatively unshroud a larger area (radius 2+) once per scenario?

Hit-and-run
After a unit mounts a surprise attack (i.e. from hidden) they get any unused movement restored after the attack (assuming they survive mounting the attack in the first place). Normally after making an attack a unit would remain visible but if a unit can return to hiding using their restored remaining movement then they may do so. Greatly improves survival chances of lower level units using assassin ability.
Not sure whether it would be available per turn or per scenario?

Sense gold
Available only to Dwarves (?) it gives direction of nearest treasure (n,nw,w,sw,s,se,e,ne). Limited range (maybe unit level +2 hexes?). Does not detect items (flowers, keys, potions etc.). May be used once per turn.
Alternatively may be used once per scenario to give a bearing on all treasures relative to the sensing unit's current location (no range information).


Gameplay-wise most of my thoughts have already been posted previously, but here are a few points that IMHO might be worth a mention?

Macro DOT_START_NOTES
IMHO the mention of the training area in DOT_START_NOTES is easily overlooked in the excitement of starting a new campaign (I did, I thought alarms were scenery for quite some time :doh:) . One way might be to highlight/colour the text Feel free to test out some of your abilities here before you get started and [label] the training area itself (maybe remove this label once a unit enters the area?) and also the alarm in the training area?

Rescue Missions
Maybe I was unlucky but a couple of times I had a rescue mission that involved a unit in a pit. The first time it was a Dark Adept who died on turn 4 (IIRC). I had no idea at first why I'd failed. Then the same thing happened to an Elvish Archer and I realised both had been attacked and swiftly killed by tentacles of the deep before I had any chance (unless I missed something) of getting anywhere near them. If this is intended behaviour, fair enough, but it feels a bit unsporting to have an unwinnable mission (unless, as I say, I missed something which is probably the case!). I had success with other rescue missions and got an Orc warrior and an Elvish healer: Pandora (twice!). The first pandora was a Shaman but had advanced to Shyde by the time the second Pandora (a Druid) was freed. I had not recalled Shyde Pandora for this mission so I assume that if the logic deselects already-liberated units it maybe only checks on-map units and not those on recall? Anyway, the second, lower level Pandora quietly vanished from my recall list when I started the next mission...

I understand that extending the gameplay makes the underyling logic a lot more complex... but it would be, IMHO, even more enjoyable if units could develop their starting abilities. So for example, by spending experience or by some other method, a unit could extend their abilities. For actions an obvious way forward would be to allow multiple use in a scenario (one possibility: have a "recharge time" and "max uses per scenario" for each action ability to determine how often and after how long after being used an ability becomes available again?)

For stealth abilities I'm less clear on how best to do this (but I understand all units get 1 action and 1 stealth ability so maybe stealth doesn't need developing?). Non-offensive aspects like defense, resistance and movement (gain skirmisher ability?) could perhaps be candidates for ways to improve stealth? For swim, maybe allowing a unit to eventually swim in deep water would be an option?

The later maps also seemed to offer more slow terrain: more frozen, swamp and mountain between starting position and target area. No idea if this is intended or not but it made the later scenarios (even) tougher. High movement units (quick footpads etc.) were useful for scouting (well duh...).

I'm vague on this but some reward for higher renown would be nice; maybe allow recruitment of other unit types and/or select abilities?
Also, higher renown might unlock other mission types? A few initial and not-really-thought-through examples follow...


Loyal Mission
E.g. have a rescue (recon?) mission variant called loyal that allows the players to gain a loyal unit without said unit needing to first be rescued.
IMHO ideally the players should either:
a) have some vague idea of the potential loyal unit's realm of ability prior to deciding to accept the mission (e.g. Magnus the mad mage asks for your help in... do you want to help him yes/no?), or

b) start the mission, loyal unit appears then have all players agree to either continue the mission or abort (turn 1 only). Abort permanently loses said loyal unit (they will never appear to them again) and returns the players back to the world map without any Doom bar penalty (except time wasted moving around the world map).
If the mission is successful (and the loyal unit survives) then the loyal unit joins the den of thieves (becomes available for recall in later missions).
Otherwise the unit leaves in a huff and as with abort never becomes available again in the campaign.
I think it would be even more fun if these loyals had odd quirks, e.g. Magnus the mad mage has a limited berserk melee attack (offense only), Grasper Goldhoard is a dwarf who will keep any gold he personally obtains for himself (i.e. it is lost to the party) unless an allied unit is adjacent when he opens the chest/picks up gold pile etc. When he does steal from his allies he will give a random excuse: "Nuthin' here..."/"It were fool's gold"/"Oops, clumsy me, dropped it an' it all rolled away..." and so forth. Get creative!

Liberate Mission
Another higher renown mission might be a sort of mass rescue (liberate?) where a group is held and a certain proportion must be freed. Alternatively, slay all those guarding the hostages/prisoners. Once one prisoner is freed there will be consequences; maybe one or more guards become alarmed (if within range)? Maybe the guards start slaying the rest? If the mssion is a success then each liberated unit will donate a sum of gold to the team so liberating as many as possible is in the players' interest!

Assassinate Mission
Yet another might be assassinate: some individuals have a bounty on their heads. Where the bounty comes from oppressed individuals the target will usually be some official figure. The assassination will garner less gold but also some renown. Where the bounty comes from other sources (e.g. a merchant wanting to be rid of a business rival) there will be more gold but no renown. The team should not know what the job is until they accept it (i.e. start the mission).
Update: after all that, I forgot something! Vghetto mentioned:
I noticed that recon objectives has a spelling mistake. seach -> search. You might like to report that at the thread.


I think I've wittered on enough for now - please feel free to get back to me if you want any more feedback (PM preferred so I know there's a message waiting for me!)

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
SP Campaigns: After EI (v1.14) Leafsea Burning (v1.17, v1.16)
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
Also, I fear that beyond a certain point more intelligence does not necessarily benefit a species...
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Bob_The_Mighty
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Re: Feedback on SP version

Post by Bob_The_Mighty »

Spannerbag wrote: December 30th, 2020, 4:46 pm Just finished the SP campaign, a well crafted and polished bit of code. Nice job to everyone who put in the time and effort producing it, much appreciated.
Hey, thanks for all the feedback. Some great ideas here! Some, like 'sense gold', are similar to ones we already have on the special heroes you can rescue. But don't be surprised if you see some of your other ideas used in the next update. ;) I like unfog and hit-and-run particularly.

At one point I started working on a base-building element, which would extend the gameplay as you suggested and provide upgrades. However, it was dropped as I realised players only really return to the den once or twice during the game. I wasn't sure if extra stuff to spend renown on would just bog it down.

Anyway, glad you're enjoying it. Let us know about any further ideas or bugs.
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
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Spannerbag
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Re: Feedback on SP version

Post by Spannerbag »

Bob_The_Mighty wrote: January 3rd, 2021, 7:10 pm Hey, thanks for all the feedback. Some great ideas here! Some, like 'sense gold', are similar to ones we already have on the special heroes you can rescue. But don't be surprised if you see some of your other ideas used in the next update. ;) I like unfog and hit-and-run particularly.

At one point I started working on a base-building element, which would extend the gameplay as you suggested and provide upgrades. However, it was dropped as I realised players only really return to the den once or twice during the game. I wasn't sure if extra stuff to spend renown on would just bog it down.

Anyway, glad you're enjoying it. Let us know about any further ideas or bugs.
Thanks for that, if I have any further crazy notions ideas, I'll let you know :)
Keep up the good work!

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
SP Campaigns: After EI (v1.14) Leafsea Burning (v1.17, v1.16)
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
Also, I fear that beyond a certain point more intelligence does not necessarily benefit a species...
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