New unit: bard

Gafgarion · Post by **Gafgarion** » March 5th, 2005, 6:10 pm

LibrarianBrent wrote:I think someone actually already proposed this a long time ago, but it was rejected because the idea was too "non-combaty".

Indeed, I proposed Bards as my first post on the Wesnoth forums. It was thoroughly rejected and has been ever since.

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » March 5th, 2005, 6:21 pm

turin wrote:It takes two hands to play a trumpet... at least, I play in a school full orchestra, and the trumpets use both hands.

well, he is not going to play and battle at the same time, he will play it and when an enemy attacks him he will hold down the trumpet and attack.
and yes, these new ones have buttons and you need two hands to play, but I was thinking about something like this:

and he could be a trumpetman and a standard bearer at the same time.

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » March 6th, 2005, 6:53 pm

I guess I'll have to make one

Pythagoras · Post by **Pythagoras** » March 6th, 2005, 7:07 pm

What if Bards gave an xp bonus (whatever number makes since) for an adjacent unit killing an enemy unit. It sort of matches with the spirit of a bard, the bard sings of his deeds and the victorious unit gains new confidence and abilities he never thought he had before.

Big Bad Joe · Post by **Big Bad Joe** » March 6th, 2005, 7:10 pm

possibilities for this feature discussed in Just two ideas - Teach system and Shapeshifter

Post by **Dragonking** » March 6th, 2005, 8:39 pm

Maybe flute in place of trumpet? You can easy fight with flute... bard seems be good unit for outlaws faction IF you will agree with me that it is scoundrel.

Pythagoras · Post by **Pythagoras** » March 6th, 2005, 9:17 pm

Or... what if Bard units allowed adjacent units to get their day or night damage bonus in dusk (and maybe dawn). That might put some oomph in the Outlaw faction.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » March 6th, 2005, 9:41 pm

Dragonking wrote:You can easy fight with flute...

um... *smacks Dragonking with flute*

*snap*

...guess it isn't that good for fighting...

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » March 7th, 2005, 12:52 am

Psicological war
wich one would you feel more fear?
the sounds of a band of orcs marching in the forest tracking you down
or
the sounds of a band of orcs marching in the forest tracking you down with a choir of drums and people screaming "bring death to the despicable humans" "rhaa" "groin" and other unexplainable sounds

dtw · Post by **dtw** » March 7th, 2005, 8:07 am

i play my trumpet with both hands two - fnar fnar

mmHg · Post by **mmHg** » March 8th, 2005, 3:52 pm

Monkey
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:52 am Post subject:
Psicological war
wich one would you feel more fear?
the sounds of a band of orcs marching in the forest tracking you down
or
the sounds of a band of orcs marching in the forest tracking you down with a choir of drums and people screaming "bring death to the despicable humans" "rhaa" "groin" and other unexplainable sounds

Fear of orcs with drums and mobs fleeing in panic sounds cool, but I can't see being afraid of a harp, lyre, flute, piccolo, or xylophone

Besides - if the orcs were tracking you down, they'd have far more success if you couldn't hear them coming!

Ridgewolf · Post by **Ridgewolf** » March 8th, 2005, 6:33 pm

It might be wise to seperate the ideas of the minstrel and/or the standard-bearer. The latter would be a trained military unit (surrounded by other units to defend him) while the former would be a musician.

Wouldn't musicians be cheaper to higher than thieves? It may not be much, but it's something. And isn't there a connection between fighting men singing and performing better in battle. No, I am NOT suggesting a choir director for a battle unit. Heh. A musical knight, perhaps?

It also strikes the intellect that there is not a morale calculator. That said, could there be away to increase the (human units') defense combat only? Personally, I've had that idea with a monk unit ( novice, apprentice, monk(then splitting off into three disciplines) where the unit only battles because they are attacked). I don't know if the idea violates the simplicity rule, but if you didn't have enough cash ( or you were in a campaign-specific environment ) monks, thieves, and 'morale officers' might be your units of choice.

Wouldn't morale be best to aid the combat of human, lawful, units during fights with chaotic enemies. For example, at night. Of course that makes little sense realisticly because orcs would hear the music, become instantly enraged, and then mercilessly throttle the source of said music.

Relating to standard-bearers: Great Idea. Something along the lines of cheap royal guard with flag? ( No, I really don't know I'm just offering thoughts )

Let us not forget that it is easy to put spearheads on flagpoles. One-handed drummers with swords are possible (unless the drummer is using double maces (non-spiked) or hammers). There is even such a thing as a five-pitch-piccolo ( or pan flute! ( both one-handed instruments)). I'd almost say harmonica, but then everyone on this forum would pelt me with dragonsticks.

All in all, I would not mind seeing a unit that increases the battle experience of the units it is next to (mage of light range). It kind of makes sense considering what minstrels do. Then again it would also be cool to see an orc get smacked in the face with a six foot long horn.

Hope this helps and that something cool comes from it. This (and a few others) wouldn't be a bad unit to have in, say, a 'villagers leave their homes to go to war' campaign/scenario.

Multiplayer Scenarios / Campaigns · Post by **Rhuvaen** » March 8th, 2005, 11:17 pm

I think the bard should allow the controlling player to exchange the in-game music with something better

khamul · Post by **khamul** » March 9th, 2005, 5:38 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:
Dragonking wrote:You can easy fight with flute...
um... *smacks Dragonking with flute*
*snap*
...guess it isn't that good for fighting...

You haven't watched enough Kung-Fu!

One of the factions in "Snake and Crane Arts of Shaolin" is headed by a girl who fights with a flute, though I'm not convinced she ever actually plays it. It's a good film anyway (if you like early Hong-Kong Kung-Fu) - check it out.

Anyway, how about a musician that gives all adjacent units 'beserk', inspiring them to fight to the death (to get away from the flute music...)?

dtw · Post by **dtw** » March 17th, 2005, 5:09 am

Lead to hit? I think that is bad.

BUT - the idea of musicians on the battlefield, and standard bearers, is to rouse the troops, we are all agreed on that. Pipers were pretty common too.

Personally I would suggest a bonus of +1 melee attack, the opposite of slow/parry to units of equal or lower. I can't see how a rousing song is going to help an archer or a mage, who both of have to concentrate, but it's nice to have a rousing tune when you are battering someone to death with your bare hands.

In terms of attack i would propose a two swing melee attack at the most, def blade.

It wouldn't be cumulative with other bards either (obviously) as leadership isn't. It should certainly max at level two, if it even goes that high, it should never really see any combat at all as that is not it's purpose. It shouldn't be cheap either. It would be aunit you would want to kill quickly to reduce the "moral" i.e. attacks of your enemy.

Like a cheap alternative to leadership