New unit: bard
Moderator: Forum Moderators
Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
-
- Posts: 33
- Joined: November 6th, 2004, 11:00 am
- Location: Prato, Italy
- Contact:
New unit: bard
Hi all! I was thinking of a new bard unit, still don't know in which team could be better, maybe it could be a variant of this unit in every team more or less...
The bard has an ability of inspire courage on his allies like leadership, or maybe it works not on damage but on to hit... He's the only one with this ability at firts level, so he's got not many hp, and poor attack (something like 4-2 and 3-2), the defence will change, it depends to the team he belongs to...
What do u think about it?
PS: sorry for my english...
The bard has an ability of inspire courage on his allies like leadership, or maybe it works not on damage but on to hit... He's the only one with this ability at firts level, so he's got not many hp, and poor attack (something like 4-2 and 3-2), the defence will change, it depends to the team he belongs to...
What do u think about it?
PS: sorry for my english...
Signature dropped due to use of img tag
In a totally irrelevant cultural moment: "You spoony bard!" is all I can think of.
Ahem...
Leadership-to-hit has been proposed a couple of times. I think it'd be interesting, but some balance issues need to be thought out.
How would it affect marksman and magic attacks?
Would it be cumulative with leadership-to-damage?
If the Bard is level one, can he lead-to-hit other level one units? How much?
Does he have an upgrade path that makes sense?
- b.
Ahem...
Leadership-to-hit has been proposed a couple of times. I think it'd be interesting, but some balance issues need to be thought out.
How would it affect marksman and magic attacks?
Would it be cumulative with leadership-to-damage?
If the Bard is level one, can he lead-to-hit other level one units? How much?
Does he have an upgrade path that makes sense?
- b.
La perfection est atteinte non quand il ne reste rien àajouter, mais quand il ne reste rien àenlever. - Antoine de Saint Exupery (of course)
-
- Posts: 33
- Joined: November 6th, 2004, 11:00 am
- Location: Prato, Italy
- Contact:
I think magic could not be affected, like in rpgs, bard's power influence only attacks made with weapons or bare hands... Maybe marksman'one...aelius wrote:How would it affect marksman and magic attacks?
Yes, why not...aelius wrote:Would it be cumulative with leadership-to-damage?
Yes, all units he is next to... Like the ancestral bard, the d&d bard, the celtic bard and so on...aelius wrote:If the Bard is level one, can he lead-to-hit other level one units? How much?
Yes, we can make him evolve in 2 ways i think:aelius wrote:Does he have an upgrade path that makes sense?
1) a sort of skald, who's more powerful and have stronger melee attacks
2) a more experienced bard, who have weaker attacks but his "inspire courage" is more powerful...
Signature dropped due to use of img tag
My one concern would be that a level one unit who leads all adjacent level one units and adds to-hit cumulatively to to-damage leadership would be really, really, really powerful.
Having him not improve mages will probably be tricky to code, and violates the Simplicity principle a bit. On the other hand, I think that having units that consistently hit 75 or 80% of the time is also really unbalancing.
What faction would they join? Loyalists? What are bards doing on a battlefield? How do they play a musical instrument and attack at the same time? This has always been one of the role playing game clichés that I find rather silly.
Looking to historical armies, you might get away with a trumpeter or a drummer, but the question remains: why does he make his comrades more accurate?
- b.
Having him not improve mages will probably be tricky to code, and violates the Simplicity principle a bit. On the other hand, I think that having units that consistently hit 75 or 80% of the time is also really unbalancing.
What faction would they join? Loyalists? What are bards doing on a battlefield? How do they play a musical instrument and attack at the same time? This has always been one of the role playing game clichés that I find rather silly.
Looking to historical armies, you might get away with a trumpeter or a drummer, but the question remains: why does he make his comrades more accurate?
- b.
La perfection est atteinte non quand il ne reste rien àajouter, mais quand il ne reste rien àenlever. - Antoine de Saint Exupery (of course)
-
- Posts: 33
- Joined: November 6th, 2004, 11:00 am
- Location: Prato, Italy
- Contact:
Bards were always used in all battles of history, with romans, greeks, celtics and so on.... The bonuses they give was a morale one, so if a troup was supported by a bard with a trumpet, a drummer, a flag-taker (dunno the right word) its units were more motivated and without fera, they never think about the idea of running away and they fight well, and so on... Like the leadership ability as i told before...
Signature dropped due to use of img tag
I suspect there may be a translation problem that's causing my consternation. A bard is typically someone who plays a stringed instrument like a harp or lyre and sings. Not terrible useful in battle.
What you're thinking of, I believe, is a standard bearer or military drummer. These, as you say, have accompained almost every ancient army into battle (the Greeks were particularly fond of the flute; the Romans were particularly fond of the trumpet). I'm not averse to the idea of a unit like that being in the game.
I just really don't want to see Edward from Final Fantasy IV (or II in the states). Spoony bards.
- b.
What you're thinking of, I believe, is a standard bearer or military drummer. These, as you say, have accompained almost every ancient army into battle (the Greeks were particularly fond of the flute; the Romans were particularly fond of the trumpet). I'm not averse to the idea of a unit like that being in the game.
I just really don't want to see Edward from Final Fantasy IV (or II in the states). Spoony bards.
- b.
La perfection est atteinte non quand il ne reste rien àajouter, mais quand il ne reste rien àenlever. - Antoine de Saint Exupery (of course)
It's not like that tomsik, a 60% to hit is already a good one, most of terrains don't have that much of % to hit. And I don't think the bard skill would add 20% of chance to hit.
And for a safe use of both bard and leadership skills the bard would have to be next to a leader, and only one unit would have both influences. If you place the units other way the bard may get killed because the lack of defense.
This may not be true in other cases, like you overwhelming the enemy, but if that's the case you would already kill the enemy anyway.
I was wondering if this unit would fit wesnoth, but I was having the same idea of aelius, that the bard was one harp player in the middle of battlefield. But now I liked the idea.
In whatever faction he is chosen he will fit in my opinion, but it depends on the instrument he plays. On northerners the drummer would fit most, while on loyalists a trumpetman would be better. A harpist would be ok in the elves.
Hey lorien! I'm also italian
I have double cirtizanships one brazilian and one italian. I'll be travelling there someday in this year.
And for a safe use of both bard and leadership skills the bard would have to be next to a leader, and only one unit would have both influences. If you place the units other way the bard may get killed because the lack of defense.
This may not be true in other cases, like you overwhelming the enemy, but if that's the case you would already kill the enemy anyway.
I was wondering if this unit would fit wesnoth, but I was having the same idea of aelius, that the bard was one harp player in the middle of battlefield. But now I liked the idea.
In whatever faction he is chosen he will fit in my opinion, but it depends on the instrument he plays. On northerners the drummer would fit most, while on loyalists a trumpetman would be better. A harpist would be ok in the elves.
Hey lorien! I'm also italian
I have double cirtizanships one brazilian and one italian. I'll be travelling there someday in this year.
I'm not a number, I'm a free monkey
- Elvish_Pillager
- Posts: 8137
- Joined: May 28th, 2004, 10:21 am
- Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
- Contact:
Die, deep walker! Fear my 110% chance to hit! My average # of hits is greater than my # of swings!tomsik wrote:this unit should be named idioticassholeplaingoninstrument.
And shound give -20% CTH to enemies
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
-
- Posts: 124
- Joined: April 13th, 2004, 12:58 am
- Location: Earth
The closest thing to this proposal is the Goblin Rouser (which I'd love to see in the game, quite frankly).
I do think leadership adds some good strategy to the game, but I think it needs to be handled sensibly. It's not clear to me how trumpet players would plausibly improve accuracy.
Also, if you're adding the unit at level one, it has to be added to a faction that has level 0 units (right now, Loyalists, Undead, and Northerners). The undead aren't the sort of people to have morale, and the Northerners have the Goblin Rouser.
If you added it to the Loyalists, the only unit it would affect on level one would be the Peasant, who seldom finds himself in battle.
- b.
I do think leadership adds some good strategy to the game, but I think it needs to be handled sensibly. It's not clear to me how trumpet players would plausibly improve accuracy.
Also, if you're adding the unit at level one, it has to be added to a faction that has level 0 units (right now, Loyalists, Undead, and Northerners). The undead aren't the sort of people to have morale, and the Northerners have the Goblin Rouser.
If you added it to the Loyalists, the only unit it would affect on level one would be the Peasant, who seldom finds himself in battle.
- b.
La perfection est atteinte non quand il ne reste rien àajouter, mais quand il ne reste rien àenlever. - Antoine de Saint Exupery (of course)
It takes two hands to play a trumpet... at least, I play in a school full orchestra, and the trumpets use both hands.Monkey wrote:there is no reason why a trumpetman couldn't hold a sword on the other hand
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
Well, not yet. But I think that the Goblin Rouser is basically like what is being suggested here.aelius wrote:and the Northerners have the Goblin Rouser.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm