portraits of female trolls

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denispir
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portraits of female trolls

Post by denispir »

Hello,

Would someone take on the fun challenge of making portraits of female trolls? After all, trolls do reproduce sexually, dont they? ;-) I would love to do it, but "plastic" arts are definitely my area of unskill.
In my view (only me), we should not fall in the trap of persons looking weak or fragile (sexism); but rather more agile and a little less massive. Say, acrobats rather than halterophiles! On a more superficial aspect, a rather fine look, for instance with a bust less wide, finer face traits, waist & hips better marked...
What do you think?

Thank you for reading.

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octalot
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by octalot »

So far there's no canon lore about troll reproduction. The Tactics Puzzles add-on discusses it, but about all that establishes is that some orcs don't know either.

BTIsaac
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by BTIsaac »

I confess, i was under the impression that trolls are a unisex species, and either reproduce asexually (one UMC has a throwaway line of dialogue which speculates that they may reproduce through budding, similar to yeasts - I personally like this idea), or they're hermaphrodites like gastropods. Their canon lore states that they're an ancient race, and are much more closely related to the earth than living creatures, so it would make sense for them to be radically different from all other races.

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Iris
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by Iris »

UtBS scenario 5 “A Subterranean Struggle”:
Troll Leader: You invade our tunnels, you slaughter our women and children, by Griknagh we will make you pay!
Zurg: While you fighting, another clan of dwarves sneak around and flank us. They tricksy like that. We must leave you and run back to defend women and little trolls. Dwarves never give up, many trolls die today, very hard fighting. But dwarves make mistake, you stronger than dwarf or troll thought. You trolls’ secret weapon.
This stuff is always subject to change, mind you. As far as I know these are the only lines in canon where trolls hint at the concept of having more than one gender.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm (now available for Wesnoth 1.14).

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Edwylm
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by Edwylm »

Also another note is SotBE in "Toward Mountains of Haag" that Blemaker is the father of Gruu.

I figured female trolls are kept secret or the troll shaman might have been a female troll.
the same can possibly be that trolls and wose are both spirits troll=earth and wose=forest kinda like yin and yang

BraverPleinair
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by BraverPleinair »

hmm female trolls? I just started playing the game a few days ago, but I'll see what I can do lol. No Promises. But I can play with a few concepts if that will fine with you.
edit: @OP
nothing amazing, but I did a few body concepts, with some poses that you might want for the portrait.
WesnothTrollConcepts.png
for the one at the far right corner, I thought I might try a taller but smoother like a stone- looking troll female to explore a few possibilties.
Last edited by BraverPleinair on November 1st, 2019, 7:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

BTIsaac
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by BTIsaac »

Edwylm wrote:
October 31st, 2019, 11:03 pm
Also another note is SotBE in "Toward Mountains of Haag" that Blemaker is the father of Gruu.
That doesn't really exclude the possibility of trolls being hermaphrodites, or even the possibility of them reproducing through budding. And i personally think interesting ideas shouldn't be thrown out the window for the sake of setting the dialogue in stone. Dialogue can be adjusted, especially when it has no real plot significance.

And let's face it, "you slaughter our women and children" is such an overused cliche line at this point. Plus coming from the trolls... it never really sat right with me. Not to mention the implication that if the player sides with the dwarves, they're basically assisting in genocide.

denispir
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by denispir »

shadowm wrote:
October 31st, 2019, 8:45 pm
This stuff is always subject to change, mind you. As far as I know these are the only lines in canon where trolls hint at the concept of having more than one gender.
Commenting on shadowm's words and others' on the topic of troll sex:
Yes, it is a good thing to change bad things, established or not ;-). However, I would find it very very alien that trolls do not reproduce sexually. There exist some animals that reproduce otherwise, but very few, and for some it is in addition to sex. Anyway this is not part of our common knowledge. We should base our Wesnoth lore on sex for all... Trolls certainly are a very ancient "race". But not more, or not much more, than elves. Both are closely related to nature. And why should ancient animals reproduce another way?

denispir
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by denispir »

BraverPleinair wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 3:42 am
hmm female trolls? I just started playing the game a few days ago, but I'll see what I can do lol. No Promises. But I can play with a few concepts if that will fine with you.
edit: @OP
nothing amazing, but I did a few body concepts, with some poses that you might want for the portrait. WesnothTrollConcepts.png

for the one at the far right corner, I thought I might try a taller but smoother like a stone- looking troll female to explore a few possibilties.
Thank you, BraverPleinair.
I rather like the general silhouette of the 1st and 3rd drawings of the bottom line. The last one may be far to slim. The troll shaman generally looks less sturdy, but not fragile, someone above said shamans may be female, I think they give us a good direction to explore. If you are new to Wesnoth, you may not know yet the Wesnoth Unit Databse. After clicking on "Trolls", you will see the 7 standard unit types of trolls. For a heroin of one of my projects, I first need the whelp and the shaman. She can only be female.

EDIT: typos
Last edited by denispir on November 1st, 2019, 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BraverPleinair
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by BraverPleinair »

denispir wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 10:50 am
Thank you, BraverPleinair.
I rather like the general silhouette of the 1st and 3rd drawings of the bottom line. The last one may be far to slim. The troll shaman generally looks less sturdy, but not fagile, someone above said shmans may be female,, I think it goves us a good direction to explore. If you are new to Wesnoth, you not know yet the Wesnoth Unit Databse. After clicking on "Trolls", you will see the 7 standard unit types of trolls. For a heroin of one of my projects, I first need the whelp and the shaman. She can only be female.
hmm, ya, I made the last one slim, just to play around with the idea of females ones can off chance be rather smoother looking and thinner, or something, just exploring on an idea, if having a very distinct difference would be like-able. Hm, so for the welp, do you want, her to be a quadrupedal like in the art for the troll welp? and is she gonna be a shaman in your story/campaign/scenario thing?

and lastly do you want any sort of unique accessory/attire on her to distinguish her character?

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Iris
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by Iris »

denispir wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 10:40 am
Yes, it is a good thing to change bad things, established or not ;-). However, I would find it very very alien that trolls do not reproduce sexually. There exist some animals that reproduce otherwise, but very few, and for some it is in addition to sex. Anyway this is not part of our common knowledge. We should base our Wesnoth lore on sex for all... Trolls certainly are a very ancient "race". But not more, or not much more, than elves. Both are closely related to nature. And why should ancient animals reproduce another way?
I find it very very alien that elves, trolls and merfolk run on magic.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm (now available for Wesnoth 1.14).

denispir
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by denispir »

BraverPleinair wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 12:10 pm
Hm, so for the welp, do you want, her to be a quadrupedal like in the art for the troll welp?
I have always found the quadrupedal whelps a very, very idiotic choice. Would we represent human youngs as crawling on the ground? (And there is no reason that trolls are as or more physically immature than humans! Quite the opposite in fact, they are closer to nature.) So, let us maybe try a middle path: not standing straight to keep with the male version, but not quadrupedal still.
BraverPleinair wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 12:10 pm
and is she gonna be a shaman in your story/campaign/scenario thing?
Actually, yes. It is a campaign story turning around a young, female troll heroin. Presently, it is nearly sure (things change all the time) that she will become (something like) a troll shaman. I will need a level 3 by the way... For it, the portrait may just be a variant of the level 2 shaman.
She will also appear in 1-2 scenarios of a campaign I'm presently rewriting.
BraverPleinair wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 12:10 pm
and lastly do you want any sort of unique accessory/attire on her to distinguish her character?
Very good idea! For instance, a stone knife (a throwing knife, I think at giving her a range attack) she wears around the neck with a leather lace. Please tell me if you have other ideas, this one is just the first one tha tpopped out of my head ;-).
PS: Two ather ideas:
* a kind of skirt, in leather
* a walking stick (she's a wandering person), that could also be a melee weapon (maybe for female whelps in general, if ever they not strong enough for their fists alone to be dangerous weapons... :?)

EDIT: changed censeored term to "immature"
Last edited by denispir on November 1st, 2019, 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pentarctagon
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by Pentarctagon »

denispir wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 2:05 pm
I have always found the quadrupedal whelps a very, very idiotic choice. Would we represent human youngs as crawling on the ground? (And there is no reason that trolls are as or more physically [censored] than humans! Quite the opposite in fact, they are closer to nature.) So, let us maybe try a middle path: not standing straight to keep with the male version, but not quadrupedal still.
How a creature walks is based more on body structure and maturity than how physically strong they are.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

denispir
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by denispir »

Pentarctagon wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 2:13 pm
How a creature walks is based more on body structure and maturity than how physically strong they are.
You are right. Trolls stand and walk straight, dont they?

BraverPleinair
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Re: portraits of female trolls

Post by BraverPleinair »

WesnothTrollConceptsTake2.png
took me a while to figure out some ideas first but here ya go. I'll get to accessories after and what not after this.
Last edited by BraverPleinair on November 2nd, 2019, 2:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

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