Unit genders

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octalot
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Re: Unit genders

Post by octalot » June 12th, 2019, 8:06 pm

Pentarctagon wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 11:46 pm
josteph wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 8:24 am
Would the rebels need a new unit line, or just one new lvl1 unit that advances to the existing Sorceress/Druid?
I guess it'd need to be a new L1 -> L2 -> L3, yeah. Otherwise it'd be pretty strange to have a unit that casts fire magic level up into a unit that doesn't.
A suggestion for lore: there have been a few legendary L3 fire-based elves, but at L3 they sprouted fire-based wings and accidentally set fire to nearby trees. So fire-based L1s that level up must either convert to the existing Sorceress/Druid path, become RIPLIB fire-based L2s that don't have an L3, or accept the fate of being a legendary exile.

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Re: Unit genders

Post by beetlenaut » June 14th, 2019, 2:12 am

otzenpunk wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 7:53 am
Wouldn't this unit at least have to have an elvish moving profile and forest defense?
Oh yeah. I didn't consider that. It's just that the faction balance has be refined and perfected over more than 10 years, so only visual changes are possible. Changing the stats of a level-1 unit is out of the question. Another possible fix is a forest-garbed mage line. It could be done with mostly recolors like with Delfador and Konrad at the beginning of HttT. It wouldn't require a really good artist that way, but better than me.
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Pentarctagon
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Re: Unit genders

Post by Pentarctagon » June 14th, 2019, 5:26 am

I would say that the way to go, if the art were available, would be to have an elf line that's a copy of the Mage -> Red Mage -> Arch Mage advancements (to maintain the current balance) and have the lore stated in the unit description justify the stats (ex: that their study of human fire magic weakened their connection to the fairy side of their nature in exchange for a power they could not otherwise wield). Then, if we get that far, consider tweaking any stats to make them different from the human mage (ex: better forest dodge in exchange for lower damage out).

I don't think the current Default balance is untouchable or unimprovable, and there is in fact some discussion going on elsewhere for a Ladder Era that would have tweaks to improve 1v1 balance, but I do think that changing the unit line itself and changing the replacement line's stats should be done separately as much as possible.
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josteph
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Re: Unit genders

Post by josteph » June 14th, 2019, 7:11 am

Actually, I was going to suggest asking the ladder era team if changing the Rebel's mage fits their work. Maybe they'll say it's out of scope, but since they're considering changes to the Shaman maybe some simultaneous changes to the Mage would be the right idea at the right time.

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Pentarctagon
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Re: Unit genders

Post by Pentarctagon » June 14th, 2019, 7:10 pm

It couldn't hurt, I suppose, though it's a moot point until there's someone willing to make the sprites.
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josteph
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Re: Unit genders

Post by josteph » June 14th, 2019, 7:36 pm

I assume unit stats should come first and sprites second? That's how the dunefolk team did it too, and it makes sense, it's a lot easier to change stats than to make/change sprites.

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Pentarctagon
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Re: Unit genders

Post by Pentarctagon » June 14th, 2019, 8:05 pm

The stats would be kept the same so as to not affect balance though, so that's pretty much done already.
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PapaSmurfReloaded
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Re: Unit genders

Post by PapaSmurfReloaded » June 25th, 2019, 8:55 pm

fluxbird wrote:
May 26th, 2018, 4:09 pm
What, if any, is the reason that the vast majority of units are only available in one gender? I mean, it's 2018. Why don't we have female sergeants and male fairies? I personally think it'd be really cool to add more diversity to the game, one step at a time.
fluxbird wrote:
May 26th, 2018, 5:26 pm
I didn't see any blue-haired thieves in LOTR and I doubt they were around in the European middle ages either so I don't know how much cred I'll put in the "misrepresentation" argument. And besides, using "it's medieval fantasy" as a justification for lack of gender representation is such a boring and outdated tactic - I find it hard to understand how people can find it more "realistic" to have trolls and orcs running around than a woman wielding a sword. I've seen excellent books and games with the same aesthetic that have no problem letting gender equality exist in their narratives.

I can understand the artwork argument though, which is why I've already picked up my tablet pen and started at least trying to work on that myself.
Can't people just play a game without getting outraged? As people have said, it is more about just making the sprites than anything else, and as far I know people are working on more female sprites.

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