The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

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sergey
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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by sergey » February 12th, 2019, 10:36 am

Hi, WhiteWolf. This campaign looks fantastic! Story, cutscenes, a lot of new units, interesting features - everything is excellent. You, as a developer, are very attentive to details :) That brings even more pleasure to play your campaign. I just finished first two scenarios. I wanted to post this feedback once I finish more scenarios. But I found something that I think may be improved and decided to post now.
Spoiler:
Replays of the two scenarios are attached.
TRS-(1) Siege of Greenwood Castle replay.gz
(70.13 KiB) Downloaded 113 times
TRS-(2) The Vow replay.gz
(47.61 KiB) Downloaded 106 times
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sergey
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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by sergey » February 12th, 2019, 4:40 pm

I found "lurch and hit" description to be a little bit inaccurate. Actual chance to hit is 60%, but tutorial says "70% chance to get hit" (file 5_The_Duel.cfg line 436)

Other minor observations:
- In the scenario 5 "The Duel" I expected that slaves will keep their traits when they are given weapons. Also, if they are advanced in a usual way by reaching required experience limit, they do not become loyal. You could use https://wiki.wesnoth.org/DirectActionsW ... rm_unit.5D without transform_to key to follow usual advancement. The only drawback is the unit's hitpoints, which will remain the same, i.e. advanced unit will not have full hp.
- In the scenario 6 "Clash of Three Kings" Dayton says "Dothar, you enter first, sword drawn." and "Dothar did not sheathe his sword", but Dothar doesn't use sword.
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WhiteWolf
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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by WhiteWolf » February 13th, 2019, 9:24 am

Hello,
First of all, thanks for the kind words :)
sergey wrote:
February 12th, 2019, 10:36 am
But I found something that I think may be improved and decided to post now.
Spoiler:
That's an interesting point. My original reasoning was that the actual number of Ravagers depend on... well how many the player recruits, that's why I aimed to be vague. But it does look silly looking at it now - I might just refrain from exact numbers and use an expression like "By then the Ravagers numbered over enough to make a decent standing army".
sergey wrote: Replays of the two scenarios are attached.
TRS-(1) Siege of Greenwood Castle replay.gz
TRS-(2) The Vow replay.gz
I will watch replays when I find the time :)
sergey wrote:
February 12th, 2019, 4:40 pm
I found "lurch and hit" description to be a little bit inaccurate. Actual chance to hit is 60%, but tutorial says "70% chance to get hit" (file 5_The_Duel.cfg line 436)
Yes, that seems to be a forgotten leftover from a balancing patch. 60% is the correct value, I'll fix the tutorial text.
sergey wrote: - In the scenario 5 "The Duel" I expected that slaves will keep their traits when they are given weapons. Also, if they are advanced in a usual way by reaching required experience limit, they do not become loyal. You could use https://wiki.wesnoth.org/DirectActionsW ... rm_unit.5D without transform_to key to follow usual advancement. The only drawback is the unit's hitpoints, which will remain the same, i.e. advanced unit will not have full hp.
Keeping the traits is fair, I'll fix that, however, not becoming loyal through regular advancement is intentional. It's a mechanical limitation so as not allow the player to stack up on loyal units without having to spend resources first.
sergey wrote: - In the scenario 6 "Clash of Three Kings" Dayton says "Dothar, you enter first, sword drawn." and "Dothar did not sheathe his sword", but Dothar doesn't use sword.
Right, I'll change sword to "mighty warhammer" :D
Author of the Underness Series, consisting of V parts: The Desolation of Karlag, The Blind Sentinel, The Stone of the North, The Invasion Of The Western Cavalry, Fingerbone of Destiny
Standalone works: The Ravagers - now for 1.14, with new bugs!

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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by WhiteWolf » February 13th, 2019, 6:46 pm

Double post because of the update.
I have discovered something that was completely not right, so I decided to update now. 1.1.16 brings the before-mentioned changes, some fixes, and some balance tweaks mainly concerning Whess.
Changelog 1.1.16:
Author of the Underness Series, consisting of V parts: The Desolation of Karlag, The Blind Sentinel, The Stone of the North, The Invasion Of The Western Cavalry, Fingerbone of Destiny
Standalone works: The Ravagers - now for 1.14, with new bugs!

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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by WhiteWolf » February 25th, 2019, 11:14 am

Campaign updated to 1.1.17, it brings mostly quality-of-life improvements (for example, the riddle-bet amount can now be changed between riddles) and a few bugfixes.
Changelog 1.1.17:
Author of the Underness Series, consisting of V parts: The Desolation of Karlag, The Blind Sentinel, The Stone of the North, The Invasion Of The Western Cavalry, Fingerbone of Destiny
Standalone works: The Ravagers - now for 1.14, with new bugs!

BTIsaac
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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by BTIsaac » February 25th, 2019, 7:36 pm

I'm in the middle of playing through it. Does updating break anything?

Also, any reason why heroes aren't loyal, or was that fixed?

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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by WhiteWolf » February 25th, 2019, 8:38 pm

Loyalty of starting heroes (Gallien, Dothar, Elvy) should have been fixed by 1.1.3 and the others gradually through 1.1.4 and 1.1.5 or such, however, it does not fix saved games unfortunately, so if you started the game in 1.1.2 or earlier, then probably the only recipe for making existing units loyal is fixing them by hand.

There is no new feature that would break anything, updating from recent versions is absolutely fine.
You only have to watch out if you are for some reason still playing a version of 1.1.14 or older. Then it is only recommended to update if you are not past map 20 (The Black Sword). Past that point, do not update. If you are not yet there, update as soon as possible :)
Author of the Underness Series, consisting of V parts: The Desolation of Karlag, The Blind Sentinel, The Stone of the North, The Invasion Of The Western Cavalry, Fingerbone of Destiny
Standalone works: The Ravagers - now for 1.14, with new bugs!

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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by Konrad2 » February 28th, 2019, 1:41 pm

Do you plan on reviving the Underness Series? (After finishing the side quests for Ravagers I guess.)

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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by WhiteWolf » February 28th, 2019, 3:36 pm

Sure :)
Porting them however will be a lot more difficult than how the Ravagers was, because some of them have very old coding, and I was very inexperienced when I did the first parts. Not only do they need a thorough revision of the mechanics, also the technical parts are inefficient if not outright ugly. Parts 4. and especially 5. also need a detailed story revision.
I also wish to unite them a lot more tightly than they were on 1.12, for efficiency in resources. I want only one package on the add-ons server and not 5. So it should be like LotL. (Actually I already did this and it looks very promising.)

I'd say it's probably a project for the summer, so a first revised beta can be expected in fall 2019, I hope. (I plan to finish Ravagers' missing sidequests a lot sooner of course).
Author of the Underness Series, consisting of V parts: The Desolation of Karlag, The Blind Sentinel, The Stone of the North, The Invasion Of The Western Cavalry, Fingerbone of Destiny
Standalone works: The Ravagers - now for 1.14, with new bugs!

BTIsaac
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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by BTIsaac » March 6th, 2019, 8:15 am

WhiteWolf wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 8:38 pm
Loyalty of starting heroes (Gallien, Dothar, Elvy) should have been fixed by 1.1.3 and the others gradually through 1.1.4 and 1.1.5 or such, however, it does not fix saved games unfortunately, so if you started the game in 1.1.2 or earlier, then probably the only recipe for making existing units loyal is fixing them by hand.

There is no new feature that would break anything, updating from recent versions is absolutely fine.
You only have to watch out if you are for some reason still playing a version of 1.1.14 or older. Then it is only recommended to update if you are not past map 20 (The Black Sword). Past that point, do not update. If you are not yet there, update as soon as possible :)
So it says my current version is 1.1.14 (before update). Based on what you say, the loyalty issue should've been fixed even before I began playing. :hmm:
ANyway, I'm not past The Black Sword, so I think I'm in the clear.

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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by WhiteWolf » March 6th, 2019, 10:52 am

BTIsaac wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 8:15 am
So it says my current version is 1.1.14 (before update). Based on what you say, the loyalty issue should've been fixed even before I began playing. :hmm:
Actually I failed to note this: they won't have the loyal trait visible on the user interface! It's like that in order to enable them to have two normal traits, so being loyal is not done through a trait. But they are "loyal by default" nonetheless (it's done through an object), and it should be confirmed by the upkeep costs bar next to income (with only the heroes on the map, it should stay on 0).
I started the game and quick tested through a couple of maps, and all seems to be fine here.

If for some reason you can see that there is a positive upkeep cost caused by the heroes, then I will need some more information.
On which map did you notice that they are not loyal?
Could you please send me a saved game, or open an inspection window and check the "upkeep" value of the heroes?
BTIsaac wrote: ANyway, I'm not past The Black Sword, so I think I'm in the clear.
That's right :)
Author of the Underness Series, consisting of V parts: The Desolation of Karlag, The Blind Sentinel, The Stone of the North, The Invasion Of The Western Cavalry, Fingerbone of Destiny
Standalone works: The Ravagers - now for 1.14, with new bugs!

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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by BTIsaac » March 6th, 2019, 11:26 am

WhiteWolf wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 10:52 am
If for some reason you can see that there is a positive upkeep cost caused by the heroes, then I will need some more information.
On which map did you notice that they are not loyal?
Could you please send me a saved game, or open an inspection window and check the "upkeep" value of the heroes?
It's difficult to say really. I need to check again, but what i noticed was, that my income is MANIFESTLY in the negative at the beginning of a scenario, and all i had were heroes. I don't know which map this was, or if the problem still persists, because i wasn't paying too much attention, especially during the Vampire side story.

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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by WhiteWolf » March 6th, 2019, 2:49 pm

BTIsaac wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 11:26 am
I need to check again, but what i noticed was, that my income is MANIFESTLY in the negative at the beginning of a scenario, and all i had were heroes. I don't know which map this was, or if the problem still persists, because i wasn't paying too much attention, especially during the Vampire side story.
I kept skipping though a couple of maps, especially around points where the narrative changes, but I couldn't find a single scenario where you start with negative income with only starting heroes.
Unfortunately, I do need a saved game of the scenario in question, because apparently I can't reproduce this :( You mentioned the Vampire side story, during that quest, you usually start with additional units that are intentionally NOT loyal, see spoiler:
Maybe it was one of these? (minor spoilers from Fiend of Vrahim):
Author of the Underness Series, consisting of V parts: The Desolation of Karlag, The Blind Sentinel, The Stone of the North, The Invasion Of The Western Cavalry, Fingerbone of Destiny
Standalone works: The Ravagers - now for 1.14, with new bugs!

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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by BTIsaac » March 6th, 2019, 6:24 pm

WhiteWolf wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 2:49 pm
Unfortunately, I do need a saved game of the scenario in question, because apparently I can't reproduce this :( You mentioned the Vampire side story, during that quest, you usually start with additional units that are intentionally NOT loyal.
Nope. As i said i was not paying attention during those parts for that very reason (and gold from that sidestory doesn't affect the main campaign anyway).
If I had to make an educated guess, it was shortly after the one with the three kings, and i only noticed it then because the heroes started reaching level three. I need to check again if that's still the case though.

Edit: okay. My upkeep is 10, all of my non hero units (the freed slaves) plus Maggoth and the red mage are loyal. The 10 upkeep seems to correspond to the total levels of Dothar, Gallien and Elvyndiel (3+3+4).
Now, i have no idea what version the campaign was after it was first ported (which is when i first downloaded it, and that was some time ago). I'm also not sure if i updated it before or immediately after i started playing it.

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Re: The Ravagers - SP campaign now for 1.14 - [Feedback and development]

Post by WhiteWolf » March 7th, 2019, 9:12 am

BTIsaac wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 6:24 pm
Edit: okay. My upkeep is 10, all of my non hero units (the freed slaves) plus Maggoth and the red mage are loyal. The 10 upkeep seems to correspond to the total levels of Dothar, Gallien and Elvyndiel (3+3+4).
Now, i have no idea what version the campaign was after it was first ported (which is when i first downloaded it, and that was some time ago). I'm also not sure if i updated it before or immediately after i started playing it.
It was 1.1.0 upon porting. To me, this sounds like you updated to 1.1.14 right after starting the game, that is why the heroes who appeared before this point (Dothar, Gallien, Elvyndiel) are bugged from the initial version, but those who appeared after (Maggoth, Tharos, and those who are to come I suppose) are fine.
Because of how saved games in Wesnoth work, there is no backwards-fixing for this :( However, you can use a debug command to fix it manually - cursor over the units supposed to be loyal, and enter the following into the command-line: unit upkeep=loyal. (while in debug mode). I'm not sure if it's a solution that persists or only works for the current scenario and the unit will return to having full upkeep for the next scenario.
Author of the Underness Series, consisting of V parts: The Desolation of Karlag, The Blind Sentinel, The Stone of the North, The Invasion Of The Western Cavalry, Fingerbone of Destiny
Standalone works: The Ravagers - now for 1.14, with new bugs!

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