Scenario Review: DiD 12 - Endless Night

Feedback for the mainline campaign Descent into Darkness.

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nuorc
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 12 - Endless Night

Post by nuorc » February 27th, 2015, 4:19 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium, 1.12.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2. (As I know now you have to win one time.)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very, very bad. It says early finish bonus and there's no turn limit. It says gold carryover to next scenario and that this is the last scenario. If the goal is to confuse new players maybe just leave it out instead of stating wrong and contradictory stuff.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
ok

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
n/a

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3. Last time I got there I lost interest due to the repetitiveness and just left. This time I died in a timely manner. Might've enjoyed it more if I cared about seeing up to how much gold I can succeed. My actual playing experience was less than a three, I give a bonus for the originality.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
As this is as it is supposed to end, I guess you can't change a lot. Maybe if I was hinted at the second round that his might go on or might be beat I would have cared more and tried harder. Maybe I would have liked some reconciling last words ('... finally find peace...') better than 'Who was that guy?', but that could be a question of taste.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
na.
I have a cunning plan.

czarkoff
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 12 - Endless Night

Post by czarkoff » May 5th, 2015, 12:38 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Easy, 1.12.2.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1: forces of foolish hero were of lower level then my troops, so it was not difficult at all.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty clear, I guess, although I didn't play it after completing the first time.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
OK.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None (apart from levelling up several troops I wanted to see at level 3 in action).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3, although it would probably be more fun once hero recruits better units.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None, actually. In my opinion this ending fits the story. It would be nice if Malin's comments would become less enthusiastic with every next scenario, ending with something like "Yes, yes, now either try or go away and leave me alone."

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.
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Entengelaende
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 12 - Endless Night

Post by Entengelaende » June 6th, 2017, 6:36 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on? Hard, 1.12.6
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Not interesting
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? Surviving the first wave of units
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 2
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? More interesting dialouge, maybe individual dialogue for each of the hero types when you are finally defeated
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario? No

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Szturmowiec
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 12 - Endless Night

Post by Szturmowiec » June 21st, 2017, 10:25 pm

This campaign was the best which I've played so far. The best story ever written. It inspired me to think about the necromancy in the other way. Is it really that evil? The main character initially had good intentions. He used it for the greater good. He wasn't like many other necromanters who seek power and dominance. He was still a good person to me and the fact that he has made some corpses walking couldn't change my opinion. I know he was eventually corrupted, but I still refuse to blame the dark magic for this, at least not only it. It was the narrow-minded people who didn't want to listen him. They refused to accept "what has to be done", and they paid the price for it by having their homes destroyed by the orcs. He was corrupted because everyone turned against him argumenting that "necromancy is a heresy". If only they listened him and opened their minds before it was too late... :cry:

As for the scenario itself, I dind't like it both for gameplay and for the story. As for difficulty, I simply didn't have the patience to repeat it enough times so it became challenging enough for me and if I didn't google that I wouldn't ever know that the real ending is shown after the death of Malin. Also it ruined the whole climat for me, because he wasn't evil to me for the most part of the campaign and he deserved something other than edning up being just another "boring" lich. I don't claim it has to be positive, but Malin was too unique to not participate in epic battle at the end.

I would also like to see some kind of sequel to it, because from what I've learned the fact that his skeleton got destroyed doesn't neccesarily mean he's dead...

P.S. The story was so great than one day I'd propably write my own campaign about the "bright" side of the necromancy. :roll:
That was the hell of a firefight. And the ammunition depleted so fast... I'm pinned down by those damned machine guns and don't know what to do next.

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Britannicus
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 12 - Endless Night

Post by Britannicus » July 2nd, 2017, 7:45 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Version 1.12.6, Challenging.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
First hero? 1

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear. Destroy the foolish hero.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It's a fitting ending to the campaign, wrapping up one of my absolute favourite campaigns in Mainline.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Nothing.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, it's fun to just blast recruits away with your veterans.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe make the difficulty rise faster between each hero.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope.
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Kylix
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 12 - Endless Night

Post by Kylix » September 14th, 2017, 8:45 pm

On the next version, the scenario's goal should be changed from "Defeat the Foolish Hero" to "Resist as long as you can", in a similar way to "Pebbles in the Flood" in "South Guard".

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octalot
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 12 - Endless Night

Post by octalot » May 25th, 2018, 10:54 pm

Based on discussion in #3165 and #3167, combined with taking ideas from SotA, I've written a possible alternative ending, #3176. This would have the campaign end when an enemy unit picks up the book of necromancy, which in that pull request is on 12,17.
Warning contains minor spoilers for SotA too:

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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 12 - Endless Night

Post by Konrad2 » October 17th, 2018, 4:21 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging, Version 1.14.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1 - 4, it pretty much stops at 4, because the difficulty caps out. Enough villages to rotate and grind any army down.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

So far...the ending is not exactly a good ending. I like the reworked idea more.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Rotating to grind.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7 - 2, because each iteration of heroes drops the fun.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

See post above.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Not yet.
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LordWolfDan
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 12 - Endless Night

Post by LordWolfDan » November 24th, 2018, 6:42 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- It was okay. I have faced elven army (no formidability), orc army (lost few lvl 3 units) and then outlaw army, who destroyed Mal Keshar. I like how the third time Mal Keshar says: "Another foolish hero? Really?"

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- None

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 4

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- I'd suggest that this last scenario should be one last stand with Dela Keshar against her brother. There'd be no defeat or victory, which'd just lead to the two endings of this campaign: 1. Mal Keshar defeats Dela and orc raids on Pathryn are decreased because of Mal Keshar's army of undead slaughtering orcs. 2. Dela defeats Mal Keshar. This'd end the undead menace, but the orc raids on the Pathryn (or what's left of it), would be much more common. I'd like someone to see this as I do have in mind a scenario which'd show how'd it with Dela as the final enemy to face off.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- None

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Kylix
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 12 - Endless Night

Post by Kylix » January 4th, 2019, 7:38 pm

Content Feedback wrote:
March 11th, 2008, 8:52 pm
(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
(1) Easy
(2) 4
(3) Compared to the previous versions (I'm playing since 1.10.7), very clear.
(4) Facing the dwarves, since most of them are deadly towards most of the undead faction.
(5) Not to die before the 3rd part.
(6) 7
(7) I'd add 2 more scenarios: "Endless Night pt. 2" and "Endless Night pt. 3", in which the former would have as a goal "Defeat another Foolish Hero" and the latter (which would be the TRUE last scenario) "Mal Keshar's demise" and should have the Foolish Heroes who've not been battled in the previous 2 scenarios, in a similar way to "The world against" in SotA. Both of them should have different beginning dialogues. The Foolish Heroes should represent a Wesnoth faction, recruiting all the canon units: the Knalgan Alliance, lead by a Dwarvish Lord or an Assassin; the Loyalists, lead by a Royal Guard; the Northeners, lead by an Orcish Warlord; the Rebels, lead by an Elvish Marshal. I'd add the Drakes, lead by a Drake Blademaster, Enforcer, Flameheart, Warden, Inferno, a Saurian Oracle or Soothsayer, and the Dunefolk, lead by a Dune Blademaster, Cataphract, Firetrooper, Harrier, Ranger, or Spearmaster.
(8) No, there wasn't.
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 12 - Endless Night

Post by The_Gnat » January 5th, 2019, 8:09 pm

octalot wrote:
May 25th, 2018, 10:54 pm
Based on discussion in #3165 and #3167, combined with taking ideas from SotA, I've written a possible alternative ending, #3176. This would have the campaign end when an enemy unit picks up the book of necromancy, which in that pull request is on 12,17.
Warning contains minor spoilers for SotA too:
This sounds really good. Is this revision part of nemaara and josteph's attempts to revamp the DiD campaign dialogue?

Mawmoocn
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 12 - Endless Night

Post by Mawmoocn » May 3rd, 2019, 11:59 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.12.6, Hard, Bat and loyal units only gameplay

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

2

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear?
Spoiler:
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Spoiler:
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Killing dwarf hero.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

1

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

At this point, I don’t think there’s something that could salvage his situation. In my eyes, he never changed. He was as he should’ve been as determined by living with vengeance all his life. Or maybe not? well it could go both ways in which he could be better or become worse.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Tested on what would happen that’s why I restarted.


In terms for the story, it was a sad one dimensional life that could happen to anyone. I didn’t like the story since there was no way to change his actions.

Overall it was a fun campaign. I’ll replay campaign this in a new version once I have time!

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