Dunefolk Rework - Base Units
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Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:
Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:
Dunefolk Rework - Base Units
Updates
Here I will present and keep track of the process of developing and finishing the sprites for Dunefolk. I will only note what is left to do and actively update it so every one can see how much is left to do.
Burner Lv1 Male - 5A
- adjust hair colour to female hair colour
- rework weird triangle on the hair
Sunderer Lv2 - 3F
- body and horse chain mail rework
- add saddle
Cataphrakt LV3 - 3G
- body and horse chain mail rework
- give spear/lance instead of mace
- redraw bow or hide bow + quiver
- add saddle
Switftrider Lv2 - 4F
- remove floating pixel
Raider Lv2 - 5F
- add saddle
- recolour chain armour
- fix horse neck
Marauder Lv3 - 5G
- recolour chain armour
- add saddle
Soldier Lv1 - 2A
- improve shield
- recolour and resize blade
- move shield 1px inwards
Swordsman Lv2 - 2B
- drop shield and and add second smaller blade instead
- redesign blades
- fix showding under shoudlerpad
- recolour blades
- fix shading on chain armour
Bladesmaster Lv3 - 2C
- drop shield and and add second smaller blade instead
- redesign blades
- recolour blades
- remove face mask
- fix shading on chain armour
Warmaster Lv4 - 2D
- beard not readable
- cloth between legs and cape TC not readable
- cloth between legs too long
- cloth between legs too aligned with other clothin
- redesign blades
- fix stance or perspective on his right blade
- recolour blades
Captain lv2 - 1B
- redesign blades
- recolour blades
Emir lv3 - 1C
- arms seems unnatural
- redesign blades
- recolour blades
Shieldguard Lv2 - 3B
- adjust shield to make it fit even more
Shieldmaster Lv3 - 3C
- recolour spear tip
- redesign shield
Herbalist Lv1 + Apothecary Lv2 + Luminary Lv3 - 1E, 1F, 1G
- TC missing
- ideally different TC then old sprites
- adjust TC shading
Poisoner Lv2 - 2F
- make headwear more interesting
- a bit more TC
Introcution
To make things clear, I do not want to force my personal vision of Dunefolk upon anyone.
The goal of this project is to continue the work where Sleepwalker and thespaceinvade left 4 years ago. In order to understand their vision, I studied their art thread and am now able to present, what he/they had in mind when they were starting reworking Dunefolk sprites in 2009. The best for that is to give a short summary and timeline of the most important things from the original Art Thread.
Time Line
Animations
But why is this needed?
. What happened next?
Jetrel's guidance on dunefolk update
Update: Soldier
Update: Spearguard
Last edited by ghype on June 27th, 2019, 9:29 pm, edited 81 times in total.
stuff I worked on: Dunefolk Rework - ghype's Daily Art
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Update: Skirmisher
Update: Burner
Update: Herbalist
Update: Rider
Update: Raider + Sunderer
What Now ?
Well, from now on updates to the sprite will happen according your feedback. There is a lot of stuff to do, so any help is welcome. There are concepts drawn for animations that have never been finished and we also have to think about certain weapon portraits and projectile animations for some specific attacks such as Burner’s flamethrower.
This project needs your feedback! So don’t hesitate to post any thought you have on how to make Dunefolk look even better.
Last edited by ghype on March 25th, 2019, 7:55 pm, edited 9 times in total.
stuff I worked on: Dunefolk Rework - ghype's Daily Art
Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework
This is very interesting art work for the soldier. I have one suggestion to offer about coloring : keep loyal units white / pale grey, and make all liminal (dark) blue. It would help make users better understand the 'alliance of city and desert tribes' aspect of dunefolk faction. Other dual alignment factions are so easy to remember which unit is loyal or chaotic, it should also be easy for dunefolk.
Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework
that is some good point you mention.
giving units of the same alignment the same colour will definetly make this faction more meroable.
however, alignments will change in the balance process, so that will have to wait until then end
giving units of the same alignment the same colour will definetly make this faction more meroable.
however, alignments will change in the balance process, so that will have to wait until then end
stuff I worked on: Dunefolk Rework - ghype's Daily Art
- ForestDragon
- Posts: 1770
- Joined: March 6th, 2014, 1:32 pm
- Location: Ukraine
Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework
ForestDragon here. I'd like to tell you that I'm not actually the one who made the dunefolk sprites (Kwandulin did), so it's probably a good idea to edit the posts.
Glad to see someone's actually working on the dunefolk, btw.
Glad to see someone's actually working on the dunefolk, btw.
My active add-ons: The Great Steppe Era,XP Bank,Alliances Mod,Pestilence,GSE+EoMa,Ogre Crusaders,Battle Royale,EoMaifier,Steppeifier,Hardcoreifier
My inactive add-ons (1.12): Tale of Alan, The Golden Age
Co-creator of Era of Magic
My inactive add-ons (1.12): Tale of Alan, The Golden Age
Co-creator of Era of Magic
Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework
I absolutely support this suggestion I still never can remember who is what
Artwork
Awesome to see some work on the Dunefolk and I really like the new soldier line it looks far superior!
I have to say I really appreciate all the contributions everyone is putting in to make the Dunefolk a better faction! And really appreciate the work you have done to combine all of this together into a coherent comparison!
As for the changes I agree with all of them! In particular I agree the rider line needs some work especially the horses. The lvl 3 Marauder's horse looks too similar to the alternate line and similarily the white wind rider's horse looks frail and weak (also I really like the mask on the Cataphract) The lvl 1 horse rider also is a bit out of place with the only brown horse.
Also the spearmaster looks great but could use perhaps a bit of modification to the helmet because it looks a bit smaller than the lvl 2.
(P.S. do we have a new sprite for the lvl 4 War master?)
Also I really like the adjustments for the skirmisher
Units
I see the potential for adding extra complications to the balance if we add in another lvl 1 but other than that I really like the shift away from the soldier line.
Honestly it made no sense at all for the skirmisher to loose his axe and ranged weapon completely and for the soldier to drop his sword and grab a spear. This mod to the line is much better but probably should be discussed in a different forum
Creator of: The Reign of The Lords Era,The Gnats Franken Dungeon.
- Pentarctagon
- Project Manager
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Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework
Given that the authorship of the images was not completely clear originally, I feel I have to ask: Does Kwandulin know his sprites are posted here? And relatedly, if edits are needed, is there someone who would be willing and able to make them?
edit-
As far as actual feedback:
edit-
As far as actual feedback:
- Regarding consistency, A1 shouldn't be the only unit in the line with a non-greyish colored sword.
- It's also a little weird that A1 is the only one in the line with TC on his shield.
- C3's spearhead seems to be bent for some reason.
- We would need a new Warmaster sprite as well, given the changes to the rest of the line.
- E2.5's horse should be changed to either white or dark grey to match up with every other mounted unit.
- Hopefully I'm not opening too large of a can of worms with this, but are female variations a possibility? Particularly for the units that aren't in full armor.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework - to Gnat
as mentioned the mounted units will get a complete overhaul sooner or later, in a complete different session.
yes, as mentioned too, that unit could need some work. personally, i don't like the shield of it. not at all.
that will be most likely a campaign units. once we get sofar I could make a lv4 of it. I think Kwandulin has a potential lv4 sprite for it but I don't think it fits.
adding a new units is something we discussed and we concluded that we should focus on balance the existing lv1 units first and then adding potential new unit lines. that means the concept of lv1 spear fighter for now is scrapped until dunefolk default is not completely balanced.
I just wasnt sure if this should be discussed all-together with the other changes or if this can be discussed separately. currently we still talk about the liminal situation, my comment on advancement could disrput that conversation, but we will see.
stuff I worked on: Dunefolk Rework - ghype's Daily Art
Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework - to Pentarctagon
the only units I really took over from Kwandulin are A1 (including it's animations) and B1. C1 mostly too with a small edit and C3 had a lot more edits.Pentarctagon wrote: ↑November 21st, 2018, 7:58 pm Given that the authorship of the images was not completely clear originally, I feel I have to ask: Does Kwandulin know his sprites are posted here? And relatedly, if edits are needed, is there someone who would be willing and able to make them?
If it wasn't clear, B2 and C2 are completely made by myself more or less from scratch.
It seems right that I at least let him know his work is incorporated into this project but I would be the one who did all the changes and I would do them of course.
1. I even consider giving them complete different swords, maybe something like B2 and C2 since they are more realistic. Maybe a bit thicker and shorter, but art style so it is consistentPentarctagon wrote: ↑November 21st, 2018, 7:58 pm
- Regarding consistency, A1 shouldn't be the only unit in the line with a non-greyish colored sword.
- It's also a little weird that A1 is the only one in the line with TC on his shield.
- C3's spearhead seems to be bent for some reason.
2. point, I will fix that. (for that I will probably remove the TC from A1 since it has enough TC already)
3. C3 will get a lot more edits, if this line doesn't get scrapped at all ( we wills ee)
that can be done as well.Pentarctagon wrote: ↑November 21st, 2018, 7:58 pm We would need a new Warmaster sprite as well, given the changes to the rest of the line.
As mentioned, the mounted units will get a complete overhaul after we are more or less happy with the infantry.Pentarctagon wrote: ↑November 21st, 2018, 7:58 pm E2.5's horse should be changed to either white or dark grey to match up with every other mounted unit.
Its funny that you ask it, since I am the one who opened this thread: Female WesnothPentarctagon wrote: ↑November 21st, 2018, 7:58 pm Hopefully I'm not opening too large of a can of worms with this, but are female variations a possibility? Particularly for the units that aren't in full armor.
So yeah, once we have the final line up for units, I will gladly do female variants too.
stuff I worked on: Dunefolk Rework - ghype's Daily Art
Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework
Sprites are made by sleepwalker, mine are just edits of his work
Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework
I hope that when you do the mounts that the basic cav would be that of camels, horses were prized in more sandy desert because they didn't do so well compared to camels. seeing horses for heroes or leaders would likely be the only units to have them.
Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework
thats very correct, camels did so much better in everyway than horses in deserts. But since we assume no longer are in deserts (when they left the old continent) it wouldn make sense for them to continue to use camels. Horses would be more useful for them in Wesnoth then camels, don't you agree?
stuff I worked on: Dunefolk Rework - ghype's Daily Art
Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework
Well their description from what I read is that they still live in the desert. However, as you mentioned when they moved though wesnoth. Which I do not know when they traveled though it. Wesnoth could have been a arid wasteland at the time.
It wouldn't make much sense of abandoning a well known pack animal which has served them well. Unless they stayed in the climate based outside of desert/arid climates. Also if horses and camels never met before the dunefolk arrived would add a advantage in warfare. In real history enemy horses are known to run away from camels when first encountered.
Though another note while traveling though wesnoth, clans of dunefolk could use horses more than camels if the climate/land is right to maintain the animal. In a way you could possibly create 2 factions within the dunefolk.
The horse would be viewed more of a exotic animal for more desert clans.
Also another note when Europeans were exploring Australia they used camels due to camels were more efficient for the outback climate compared to horses.
It wouldn't make much sense of abandoning a well known pack animal which has served them well. Unless they stayed in the climate based outside of desert/arid climates. Also if horses and camels never met before the dunefolk arrived would add a advantage in warfare. In real history enemy horses are known to run away from camels when first encountered.
Though another note while traveling though wesnoth, clans of dunefolk could use horses more than camels if the climate/land is right to maintain the animal. In a way you could possibly create 2 factions within the dunefolk.
The horse would be viewed more of a exotic animal for more desert clans.
Also another note when Europeans were exploring Australia they used camels due to camels were more efficient for the outback climate compared to horses.
Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework
Here is something that I quickly edited to show that camels would look a bit nicer compared to the current horse units. If you want I could help create the camels.
note i simply edited the quesnoth's dustbok.
note i simply edited the quesnoth's dustbok.
- Attachments
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- camels.png (24.09 KiB) Viewed 10420 times
Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework
yes I totally agree with every historical fact of yours. I just never saw a full armoured rider and full plated camel as the piercer lines wants it to be.
I could maybe see the rider line on a camel, but that would create inconsistencies with the raider line and with the entire faction too since you'd have one horse line and one camel line.
Also, the camel has different terrain properties, means it would have a different movetype which could complicate balancing DF a bit more, don't you thin?
Nonetheless, your modified Quenoth mount looks pretty good. So if we agree on a solution using camels, your sprites would be a start point for it.
I am just not convinced that camels could work for Dunefolk as they wished them to be...
I could maybe see the rider line on a camel, but that would create inconsistencies with the raider line and with the entire faction too since you'd have one horse line and one camel line.
Also, the camel has different terrain properties, means it would have a different movetype which could complicate balancing DF a bit more, don't you thin?
Nonetheless, your modified Quenoth mount looks pretty good. So if we agree on a solution using camels, your sprites would be a start point for it.
I am just not convinced that camels could work for Dunefolk as they wished them to be...
stuff I worked on: Dunefolk Rework - ghype's Daily Art