Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.13.1 [Wesnoth 1.14.x & 1.15.12+]
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- ForestDragon
- Posts: 1771
- Joined: March 6th, 2014, 1:32 pm
- Location: Ukraine
Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
Seems like I got a bit confused. Anyway, a bolas upgrade might be helpful in IftU too. (This should be useful for levels where there's a recruitment limit, allowing you to slow bosses without exposing healers, as galas can handle retaliation better)
My active add-ons: The Great Steppe Era,XP Bank,Alliances Mod,Pestilence,GSE+EoMa,Ogre Crusaders,Battle Royale,EoMaifier,Steppeifier,Hardcoreifier
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Co-creator of Era of Magic
My inactive add-ons (1.12): Tale of Alan, The Golden Age
Co-creator of Era of Magic
Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
Just to keep a coherent storyline Galas could be shown becoming a Wayfarer at the end of IftU and that'd be it.
Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
Overall AtS spoilers, do NOT open if you have not completed AtS before. I’m being serious here:
This is a good observation (much like everything else in your post). I am actually playing around with the numbers in AtS since I realized in my last IftU playthrough that I didn’t manage to complete Elynia’s AMLA tree despite my best efforts and ended up with her requiring about 1000 XP to level up again. Somehow I seemed to remember this going much better when working on IftU 2.0.1.Zhou wrote: ↑June 11th, 2018, 3:38 pmI'd suggest changing the XP requirement to a flat 20% (would be similar to UtBS) every time you advance or at least lower the percentages. I believe that's multiplicative anyway. A 50% increase means you're probably not going to bother trying to level the unit again, just to get an AMLA.
As for Galas and Mal Keshar, I do intend to make Galas into a unit type that levels up using AMLAs, much like Kaleh in UtBS. I didn’t give him much priority initially for two reasons:
- Doing so would make IftU seem even more of a UtBS copycat than it already is.
- It would require new art for Galas
Mal Keshar is a more difficult case.
He does deserve new art and I should be perfectly able to draw him a new baseframe and transplant the Ancient Lich animations. The problem is that I don’t want the player to focus on Mal Keshar at the expense of everyone else, and I don’t want him to seem weak and undeserving of his title either. A point could be made that Anlindë’s curse might force him to work harder to overcome some of the limitations it imposes over his magic.
This is actually the reason the Glacial Gladius in S21 came to be. Except that it’s easy to miss its existence if you don’t go specifically out of your way to poke holes in the map, and even then the exact method to obtain it for the right unit is somewhat contrived.ForestDragon wrote: ↑June 11th, 2018, 7:21 pmSeems like I got a bit confused. Anyway, a bolas upgrade might be helpful in IftU too. (This should be useful for levels where there's a recruitment limit, allowing you to slow bosses without exposing healers, as galas can handle retaliation better)
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.
Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
It *is* an explicit continuation. In any event the Shaxthals and Aragwaithi and all the theological cosmogony never were part of UtBS (is there anything new in the version that came with 1.14?) so it doesn't feel like a ripoff.shadowm wrote:Doing so would make IftU seem even more of a UtBS copycat than it already is.
And the only comment I can make on the Glacial Gladius is ‘Hell yes!’, btw.
Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
Well, to wit:Sadaharu wrote: ↑June 12th, 2018, 2:12 amIt *is* an explicit continuation. In any event the Shaxthals and Aragwaithi and all the theological cosmogony never were part of UtBS (is there anything new in the version that came with 1.14?) so it doesn't feel like a ripoff.shadowm wrote:Doing so would make IftU seem even more of a UtBS copycat than it already is.
IftU and UtBS spoilers:
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.
Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
This is what is called a loving homage.shadowm wrote:More generally, I can say with absolutely certainty that my younger self was deliberately reusing parts of UtBS’ formula in an attempt to emulate it,
Spoilered discussion:
Spoiler:
And the same, so far, applies to IftU/AtS.
Also
Spoiler:
Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
Ahh, yes of course, I didn't think about the implications that would have on AtS.
Also I didn't make it very clear, but the suggestions at the end of my last post were not specifically meant for Elynia. I was just throwing general ideas around.
I don't actually think people will "focus" on one character, at least if all the unique units are different enough and all have strenghts that others don't. Malin's strengths are that he's fairly tanky, with his mostly good resistances against physical attacks, high HP & drain attack and damage out the a**. He dies pretty easily to Chaos Invokers though and is pretty slow. I'd say making him slightly weaker at the start is completely fair, since right now he can solo the first two parts of S4, which is kind of ridiculous even for a super powerful unit like him. And if the player feeds him enough XP he's rewarded with a damage dealing powerhouse, that annihilates everyone in direct combat, but can't do anything else. The most important aspect of a high damage unit is complete incompetence with almost everything else/lack of any other abilities I'd say and at least some weakness in their defense (which he already has).
In turn of course, you could make the others even better at what they do, like having Elynia heal more than +8 (10-16?), healing right now is really slow when everyone has near 100 HP, making her even faster than she already is or giving her even more different damage types (no one has fire yet and it would be amazing vs Shaxtal).
As for Galas, going of his traits (resilient+quick) either having him become a high HP, high resistance frontliner (lvl 4 leadership, steadfast/dauntless, first strike, etc.?) or an agile Assassin like unit (poison?, backstab, skirmisher, slow, lower movement cost/more MP, etc.) with high defenses or maybe both would fit him. Since HP, resistance and defense all multiply though, that might be a little much.
I actually like the idea of items as a reward for exploring, as long as you can still enjoy the campaign without them. Right now the MP ring kind of screams "Galas is slow so take this!". They also help make units feels special and unique, like this guy:
So, once everyone has AMLAs, maybe reserve them for non-hero units?
Slight spoiler on a hidden item:
slightly confused
- Sudipta
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
Congratulations on the successful port of IftU to 1.14. A Battle For Wesnoth game does not feel complete without IftU or AtS. Now i can finally have IftU in my new 1.14 version. Best of luck on porting AtS too.
I'd also like to mention that cliches are cliches because they work. Just because something is somewhat generic doesn't mean it can't be of magnificent quality. No one can be 100% original in the 21st century.
P.S i always enjoy reading your "profound" posts in the forums
I'd also like to mention that cliches are cliches because they work. Just because something is somewhat generic doesn't mean it can't be of magnificent quality. No one can be 100% original in the 21st century.
P.S i always enjoy reading your "profound" posts in the forums
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Playing Wesnoth since 2010, still there is so much left to play
Playing Wesnoth since 2010, still there is so much left to play
Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
Okay, here’s a possible new AMLA tree for Elynia:
HP: 95
XP: 1159
Attacks: melee 8-4 impact, ranged 9-5 impact (slows), ranged 12-5 arcane (magical), ranged 12-3 pierce (magical+drains)
Resistances: arcane 20%, blade 0%, cold 10%, fire 10%, impact 10%, pierce 0%
This is not taking into account...
EDIT: Revised Shielding II/III and corrected final stats after talking with nemaara.
- Strength I: hitpoints +4, melee damage +1
- Strength II: hitpoints +4, melee strikes +1
- Strength III: hitpoints +5
- Strength IV: hitpoints +5, mele damage +1
- Strength V: hitpoints +5
- Focus I (requires Strength I): faerie fire damage +1
- Focus II (requires Strength III): faerie fire strikes + 1
- Focus III (requires Strength IV): ensnare strikes +1
- Shielding I (requires Focus I): arcane resistance +10%
- Shielding II (requires Focus II): arcane resistance +20%, impact resistance +10%
- Shielding III (requires Focus II, Strength IV): cold resistance +10%
- Thorns I: new attack — ranged pierce 10-2, magical+drains
- Thorns II: thorns damage +1, strikes +1
- Thorns III: thorns damage +1
HP: 95
XP: 1159
Attacks: melee 8-4 impact, ranged 9-5 impact (slows), ranged 12-5 arcane (magical), ranged 12-3 pierce (magical+drains)
Resistances: arcane 20%, blade 0%, cold 10%, fire 10%, impact 10%, pierce 0%
This is not taking into account...
Late IftU spoilers:
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.
- ForestDragon
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
I think the damage increase difference between Thorns II/Thorns III is too high. I'd suggest something like this:
[*]Thorns II: thorns strikes +1
[*]Thorns III: thorns damage +2
now the total damage increase provided by Thorns II is 10 on (when previously it was 13), and Thorns III damage increase is 6 (previously it was 3)
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Co-creator of Era of Magic
Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
Um.
That list I posted isn’t cumulative over the current AMLAs, so e.g. the Thorns III damage increase is not 6, it’s 1 (plus previously the AMLA didn’t even exist).
That list I posted isn’t cumulative over the current AMLAs, so e.g. the Thorns III damage increase is not 6, it’s 1 (plus previously the AMLA didn’t even exist).
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.
- ForestDragon
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
Sorry if I wasn't clear. By total damage increase I mean the damage increase multiplied by amount of strikes.
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Co-creator of Era of Magic
Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
Time for another spreadsheet!:
Assuming you need Shielding I to take Shielding II and so on, having the "final" and hardest to reach AMLA be only +10% cold resistance seems kind of disappointing to me. There isn't that much cold damage compared to other dmg types (at least on the enemies side) and by the point you get it, it saves you maybe 1-3 HP if she attacks a high level demon/lich and about 2-4 HP retaliation in 23B, assuming you slow appropriately. Most Verlissh don't really do enough dmg for 10% to matter. I'd honestly expect something a bit more epic
I'd second this.ForestDragon wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 5:14 am I think the damage increase difference between Thorns II/Thorns III is too high.
Thorns II increases the total damage/HP drain of the attack by more than 60%.
Thorns III is not even 10%.
slightly confused
Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
How about doing this:
Shielding III -> New Shielding I
Shielding I -> New Shielding II
Shielding II -> New Shielding III
That way the usefulness of the AMLAs climbs way better.
Shielding III -> New Shielding I
Shielding I -> New Shielding II
Shielding II -> New Shielding III
That way the usefulness of the AMLAs climbs way better.
Last edited by Konrad2 on June 15th, 2018, 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]
Unless there's been a huuuge rework from the version available in BfW 1.12, I fail to see how somebody could level up Elynia's character that far, especially seeing as
btw, about Galas' unit type:
Spoiler:
Spoiler: