Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

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Pentarctagon
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Pentarctagon » April 1st, 2018, 7:12 am

An update: currently just waiting on Sleepwalker to hopefully reply regarding the sprites above - Kwandulin has said he is fine with them being used, and Vyncyn was actually the author of the Roc sprite and is also okay with it being used as well as making a smaller version of it.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Vyncyn » April 1st, 2018, 10:54 am

Added TC and made some other small changes. They're done as far as I'm concerned.
My rocs do have a different colour, which might be problematic if used as the falcon advancement :hmm: .
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Coffee » April 2nd, 2018, 12:13 am

Whilst Roc sprites are being discussed I want to mention that there is also this one by Inferno8 (I've done some minor alterations to them). I've got a cfg for this unit too in my UMC era that uses these animations for a charge attack.
roc.gif
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rocling.gif
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Was thinking about adding some color to the underside of the wings for the level 2/3 unit, but don't really have enough artistic ability to do this well I think.

If not directly useful, these sprites can show how to use the wing movements for another set of sprites.

I'd like to see the Dunefolk to use the Wyvern Riders and flesh this out first. These units could be campaign specific or simply replace the current Falcon lines.

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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » April 2nd, 2018, 5:16 am

I think I actually like these ones better than Vyncyn's... though Vyncyn's are still pretty good, they just seem to evoke a different kind of bird than I envision the roc being.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by zepko » April 2nd, 2018, 12:57 pm

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
April 2nd, 2018, 5:16 am
I think I actually like these ones better than Vyncyn's... though Vyncyn's are still pretty good, they just seem to evoke a different kind of bird than I envision the roc being.
My 2 cents: I really prefer Vyncyn's sprites. In my opinion they look more majestic and threatening.
Pentarctagon wrote:
March 30th, 2018, 11:41 pm
@zepko:
Thanks! Yeah, those do look good, and there's even a riderless wyvern(could call it a Wild Wyvern maybe?). For now though, I'd prefer to keep this to just new units that could be added to core, rather than changing the sprites for existing units. The Jinn though I think would be useful as a good utility sort of unit to have available for people who would want to use it, if nothing else.
Yeah, I didn't mean to replace the sprites for existing units (although those resemble more closely the Dune Soldier with respect to the current advancements). Regarding the Jinn, of course it does not harm to add it, especially if a fitting description is written. Something like, for example: "Jinns (or any other better name) are spirits of the desert. They live in the sandy wastes and very few have actually reported meeting them. They are said to ambush unwary travellers..." and so on (just a stub). What I would dislike is a reference to the Dunefolk in its description or a reference to the Jinn in the Dunefolk description, as I think they should be kept apart. Being the Dunefolk not a magical faction/race, introducing a spirit which consistently interacts with them in any way is, I think, not fitting. And I really like the current Dunefolk description.

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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Pentarctagon » April 6th, 2018, 1:57 pm

Alright, well, Sleepwalker hasn't replied, so those sprites will stay under the GPL, unless someone else knows another way to contact him.

In any case, my proposal is now:
Rocs
Young Roc, level 1:
ImageImage

Roc, level 2:
Image

The sprites Coffee suggested would be fine too, though personally there's something about them that seems a little off. It might just be the animation, but they seem a little blurry or maybe too brown? Not sure.
Wyverns
Wild Wyvern, level 1:
Image

Name TBD, level 1:
Image

Name TBD, level 2:
Image

Name TBD, level 3:
Image

Name TBD, level 4(?):
Image
Jinn
Jinn, level 2:
jinn.png
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Flameslash » April 6th, 2018, 2:15 pm

The Rocs look great. Will they replace the Falcon as the Dunefolk's flying scout unit? I feel as though there'd be too much overlap in visuals and in role if both were included.

The Wyvern riders are pretty good, however I feel like #3 doesn't fit in as a linear advancement between #2 and #4 - he's wearing leather armour and carrying a silver blade, whereas #2 and #4 both wear metal armour and carry golden spears. I'd suggest having #1 advance into either #2 or #3, and #2 advance into number four.

The Jinn is pretty spooky looking too.

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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Pentarctagon » April 6th, 2018, 2:55 pm

For the wyvern rider levels, I used the size of the banner behind them, so I think it's fine as-is. It'd be strange for that to not match up, though I agree the other differences between levels 2 -> 3 -> 4 makes it a little odd as well.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Flameslash » April 6th, 2018, 3:06 pm

Fair point about the banners. Perhaps #3 could be an alternate advancement of #2, then? It's banner looks to be a similar size to #4's anyway.

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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Caladbolg » April 6th, 2018, 5:17 pm

About Pentarctagon's proposal:
Young Roc doesn't really give off an impression of a huge mythical bird, it seems like a slightly bigger eagle. I think that there's no need for it considering that it probably wouldn't be much different functionally from the eagles the Dunefolk currently have.
On the other hand, the Roc seems too big for a lvl 2 unit, maybe even for a level 3. I think the sprite can be used, but make it a lvl3 or lvl4 unit with a similar function to a Yeti- a rare and immensely strong monster.
Alternatively, the Rocling/Roc that Coffee suggested is more like what I imagine a Roc to look like (more untamed and barbaric rather than majestic) and those two sprites could work if you want lvl1->lvl2 progression but I agree that there's something 'off' about them.

Wyverns: the proposed lvl3 is a bit of an odd one out as noted. But I'd also like to point out that they are all quite similar. Usually, you can tell units apart from a quick glance even if they are in the same unit line, mainly because of different postures. All of these Wyvern riders have the same posture, and with their size, the sprites seem somewhat cluttered visually. Here you can notice the different flag sizes and slightly different spears, etc., but I think it would be really hard to tell them apart in game with other units around. And I don't think it's needed to have a progression all the way to lvl4.
I'd suggest removing the lvl3 one at the very least, maybe even another one (either lvl4 or lvl2).

Jinn is ok, but it also doesn't fit the image of a Jinn I have in my head (flame, sand and smoke), I don't know if others feel the same. I think it would be a good addition, but not really as a Jinn, but as a Desert Spirit or something (the whole bedsheet shtick is more reminiscent of western ghosts). The bluish/purple skin is also slightly weird.

Roc and Jinn would also need TC right?

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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Flameslash » April 6th, 2018, 6:13 pm

The Wyverns could be recoloured to make them more distinct, if needed. It’s a pretty simple change to make.

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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » April 7th, 2018, 12:50 am

For the wyvern riders I think I might prefer just having three, rather than four units.
Caladbolg wrote:
April 6th, 2018, 5:17 pm
Jinn is ok, but it also doesn't fit the image of a Jinn I have in my head (flame, sand and smoke), I don't know if others feel the same. I think it would be a good addition, but not really as a Jinn, but as a Desert Spirit or something (the whole bedsheet shtick is more reminiscent of western ghosts). The bluish/purple skin is also slightly weird.
It is a little different than my image of a jinn, true, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, and it could be used to give Irdyan jinn some unique character. The blue skin and lack of legs at least is precedented for jinn. (In Disney, mind you; not sure if it occurs anywhere else.)

This jinn might be more of the smoke than the fire. (I know jinn are said to be made of "smokeless fire", but despite that there are representations of them that focus a lot on the smoke, for example the Children of the Lamp novel series.)
Caladbolg wrote:
April 6th, 2018, 5:17 pm
Roc and Jinn would also need TC right?
There are monster units that don't have TC, so if they're not actually being added to a faction, they can probably do without TC. That said, I think it'd be better if they had it.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Xalzar » April 7th, 2018, 9:54 am

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
April 7th, 2018, 12:50 am
This jinn might be more of the smoke than the fire.
That makes me think that it could have the ability to "darken" the surroundings, like an anti-illumination ability (it already exists in UMC and it's such a simple ability that fits the core game). Granted, if we go for "smoky jinns". It could be a branch of level ups potentially, in opposition to "flamy jinns".

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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Eagle_11 » April 7th, 2018, 11:31 am

I would like an standalone, on-foot version of the wyvern rider guy as he would make an good lvl0 unit, something like a dunefolk peasant, im talking about the orange leather wearing guy, obviously.
There are also these two sprites Kwandulin had use in his OoA that could pass for an djinn.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » April 7th, 2018, 2:31 pm

Uh, those don't just pass for jinn. They are jinn, as evidenced by the filenames. That said, I'm not a fan of those jinn; they're kinda stereotypical.
Xalzar wrote:
April 7th, 2018, 9:54 am
Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
April 7th, 2018, 12:50 am
This jinn might be more of the smoke than the fire.
That makes me think that it could have the ability to "darken" the surroundings, like an anti-illumination ability (it already exists in UMC and it's such a simple ability that fits the core game). Granted, if we go for "smoky jinns". It could be a branch of level ups potentially, in opposition to "flamy jinns".
Hmm, this is indeed a rather interesting idea.
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