[mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit names
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
Celtic_Minstrel wrote: I do kinda agree that it's a bit weird for a shieldmaster to level up to something that lacks a shield.
The lvl 4 unit still has the "shield bash" attack though, it's just not visible in the spirte. Warmaster is a good name and would fit regardless of whether the unit has a shield or not.Pentarctagon wrote:Khalid: Warmaster - To me, this sounds the best, given that the unit gives up its shield for a second sword. Warlord would also fit, I think, though that might have a more negative connotation.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
Taking a better look, here's my stab at it, mixing and matching from previous suggestions and other sources:
In some cases, I deliberately paralleled existing unit lines, ie, Warrior & Swordsman being used for level 2 units elsewhere in mainline (though some parallels were already present)
In some cases, I deliberately paralleled existing unit lines, ie, Warrior & Swordsman being used for level 2 units elsewhere in mainline (though some parallels were already present)
Arif Line
Hakim Line
Jundi Line
Khaiyal Line
Naffat Line
Rami Line
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
Hmm, some of those are quite different (by which I mean you've applied the same names but to different units). Maybe this still requires more thought...
By the way, has anyone looked at the existing unit descriptions? Would it make sense to draw ideas from those, or would we be rewriting them from scratch anyway?
Upgrading a swordsman to a blademaster does kinda make sense... and marauder seems like a good name... burner is no better than combuster though in my opinion. I don't even know where padishah came from, and I really don't like warmaster as a name. Also, to me it really doesn't fit for a soldier to level to warrior (or even the other way around); to me, they imply quite different types of fighters. I think of a soldier as the rank and file of a disciplined military unit, while a warrior is more independent.
Maybe it would make more sense to remove the attack. I don't think there'd be any balancing concerns in modifying the khalid, though if an attack is removed it should probably be replaced with something else (maybe he can throw his sword or something, I dunno). In any case, there's plenty of time to consider whether to change his attacks after the names are settled on.
By the way, has anyone looked at the existing unit descriptions? Would it make sense to draw ideas from those, or would we be rewriting them from scratch anyway?
Upgrading a swordsman to a blademaster does kinda make sense... and marauder seems like a good name... burner is no better than combuster though in my opinion. I don't even know where padishah came from, and I really don't like warmaster as a name. Also, to me it really doesn't fit for a soldier to level to warrior (or even the other way around); to me, they imply quite different types of fighters. I think of a soldier as the rank and file of a disciplined military unit, while a warrior is more independent.
Hmm, that's interesting but a bit contradictory. How can he wield two swords and a shield? The best I can think of is that he needs to sheath one of them before doing a shield bash...Vyncyn wrote:The lvl 4 unit still has the "shield bash" attack though, it's just not visible in the spirte. Warmaster is a good name and would fit regardless of whether the unit has a shield or not.
Maybe it would make more sense to remove the attack. I don't think there'd be any balancing concerns in modifying the khalid, though if an attack is removed it should probably be replaced with something else (maybe he can throw his sword or something, I dunno). In any case, there's plenty of time to consider whether to change his attacks after the names are settled on.
Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
How about the infamous pommel-throwCeltic_Minstrel wrote:Maybe it would make more sense to remove the attack. I don't think there'd be any balancing concerns in modifying the khalid, though if an attack is removed it should probably be replaced with something else (maybe he can throw his sword or something, I dunno)
Joking aside; There is no reason why he has to wield two swords (other than the rule of cool), so a sprite change might suffice, if he keeps the attack.
Here are some additional suggestions:
Arif (lvl 1): Militia
Arif line (lvl 2 or 3): Scimitarfighter/-warrior/-master
Mudafi: Spearguard sounds better that spearbearer imo.
Exept for Padishah, I like the names SigurdFireDragon has. I'd go for Warlord or Khan for the Khalid.
By reading so much about them, I'm slowly getting used to their old names
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
I largely agree with SigurdFireDragon's names though the Arif line could use some work. Maybe Soldier->Hero->Elite->Warmaster/Sultan/Khan?
As Vyncyn said, maybe Spearguard instead of Spearbearer for Mudafi.
For Hakim line, I wouldn't mind Alchemist or Thaumaturgist as their healing abilities might seem like miracles to outsiders, but Herbalist->Physician is also fine.
I think names like Padishah or Tarkan should be avoided as they tell the player nothing about the unit. On the flip side, I think it'd be ok to keep Naffat as a name for, well, Naffat, because it sounds similar enough to 'naphta' and I think it'd work nicely.
EDIT: Oh, and prefix Dune.
As Vyncyn said, maybe Spearguard instead of Spearbearer for Mudafi.
For Hakim line, I wouldn't mind Alchemist or Thaumaturgist as their healing abilities might seem like miracles to outsiders, but Herbalist->Physician is also fine.
I think names like Padishah or Tarkan should be avoided as they tell the player nothing about the unit. On the flip side, I think it'd be ok to keep Naffat as a name for, well, Naffat, because it sounds similar enough to 'naphta' and I think it'd work nicely.
EDIT: Oh, and prefix Dune.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
These names don't flow well; they're awkward to say. It's also pretty unnecessary to be so specific - for the dunefolk, "scimitar" and "sword" are essentially the same thing (or to put it another way, "scimitar" is the default kind of sword), so what's wrong with "swordfighter" etc?Vyncyn wrote:Arif line (lvl 2 or 3): Scimitarfighter/-warrior/-master
That only works for two out of three though; "scimitarwarrior" is awkward on both ends, meaning that "swordwarrior" is still awkward, and while "swordmaster" is fine, I feel "blademaster" sounds nicer.
I still maintain that thaumaturgist is quite inappropriate. Maybe it doesn't technically mean "magician", but it does very strongly imply one.Caladbolg wrote:For Hakim line, I wouldn't mind Alchemist or Thaumaturgist as their healing abilities might seem like miracles to outsiders, but Herbalist->Physician is also fine.
Yeah, naffat is probably the one name in the existing khalifate that I don't think I'd ever be confused by. I suppose you could also respell it "naphat" to emphasize the relation to naphtha a bit more.Caladbolg wrote:On the flip side, I think it'd be ok to keep Naffat as a name for, well, Naffat, because it sounds similar enough to 'naphta' and I think it'd work nicely.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
AgreeVyncyn wrote:Mudafi: Spearguard sounds better that spearbearer imo.
Seems like a possibility.Caladbolg wrote:Maybe Soldier->Hero->Elite->Warmaster/Sultan/Khan?
Saw it on the wiki page for Sultan. Its a superlative sovereign title of Persian origin. Also found Khan there as well (Mongolian title for a sovereign or a military ruler)Celtic_Minstrel wrote:I don't even know where padishah came from
Maybe Alchemist or Thaumaturgist could be made to work, though it would need a spin on their abilities in the description like there is for the Dwarvish Thunderer line, or a completely new description.Celtic_Minstrel wrote:I still maintain that thaumaturgist is quite inappropriate. Maybe it doesn't technically mean "magician", but it does very strongly imply one.Caladbolg wrote:For Hakim line, I wouldn't mind Alchemist or Thaumaturgist as their healing abilities might seem like miracles to outsiders, but Herbalist->Physician is also fine.
That would make combustor better since it is different from burner (there's already one in mainline)Celtic_Minstrel wrote:burner is no better than combuster though in my opinion.
More possibility for the Naffat line: (moved Firebrand to lvl 1, as based on the definition it doesn't seem like it should be lvl 2 compared to other options)
Firebrand -> Firespitter -> Firestorm
Firebrand -> Scorcher/Combuster -> Incinerator
Some other possibilities:
Fighter -> Warrior could be done, for either the Arif or Jundi lines (though I think it's a better fit for the Jundi)
Infantry -> Veteran could be used for the Arif line
Arif
Solider/Infantry -> Veteran -> Champion
Jundi -> Batal
Fighter/Infantry -> Warrior/Hero -> Ranger
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
Some of these ideas do sound good. I could probably get used to "Firebrand -> Firespitter -> Firestorm", though something about it doesn't quite sit right with me... still, sharing the same secondary prefix is nice, at least.
I also want to point out that alchemist has far fewer magical connotations to it than thaumaturgist. Alchemy is the ancestor of modern chemistry, after all, though the term is also used in fantasy to refer to the brewing of magic potions and such, so there are some magical connotations there.
I also want to point out that alchemist has far fewer magical connotations to it than thaumaturgist. Alchemy is the ancestor of modern chemistry, after all, though the term is also used in fantasy to refer to the brewing of magic potions and such, so there are some magical connotations there.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
Hmm... about the Naffat line. Alchemy is usually associated with middle east, which is where this faction draws inspiration from. Even if we don't use the name 'Alchemist' for the healer line, maybe we could use it for the Naffat? And surely the Naffat don't use only naphta but also other flamable stuff. Considering fire has been associated with sulphur in alchemy, maybe we could also draw inspiration from there? Maybe meddling with sulphur and other stuff leaves yellowish hue on their hands so others call them 'Goldhands'? Or maybe they use 'Sulphurous' as a title?
Aside from alchemy associations, maybe the flames can linger on their white capes, making them appear like they're burning, leading to names like 'Brightcape'/'Brightcloak'. Maybe due to the fact they cover their mouths and the fact that the odour of chemicals they use is disgusting, people believe they don't actually breathe and call them 'Breathless'?
I think that some of the already proposed names like Firebrand or Scorcher are good and the names I proposed here are, admitedly, not the best, but I'm just putting them forth as examples of names that don't follow the very direct association with fire and are a bit more creative. I believe that names which have some kind of a lore tie-in (e.g. Thunderer, Drake Enforcer & Arbiter) are better than those that are a literal description of what the unit does in battle. It'd be a shame not to explore these sorts of more creative, lore-rich names when the faction has such potential for it.
Aside from alchemy associations, maybe the flames can linger on their white capes, making them appear like they're burning, leading to names like 'Brightcape'/'Brightcloak'. Maybe due to the fact they cover their mouths and the fact that the odour of chemicals they use is disgusting, people believe they don't actually breathe and call them 'Breathless'?
I think that some of the already proposed names like Firebrand or Scorcher are good and the names I proposed here are, admitedly, not the best, but I'm just putting them forth as examples of names that don't follow the very direct association with fire and are a bit more creative. I believe that names which have some kind of a lore tie-in (e.g. Thunderer, Drake Enforcer & Arbiter) are better than those that are a literal description of what the unit does in battle. It'd be a shame not to explore these sorts of more creative, lore-rich names when the faction has such potential for it.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
I'm in favor of Dune as a unit prefix. It would also work well for the associated movetypes.
Here's a refinement of my suggestions, with other good options added.
I'm still a little unsure about Arif -> Khalid line, other than shieldbearer/shieldmaster is not a good way to go. (It would need backup in the lore to name a unit by its secondary attack, and I'm not sure what amount, if any, would be sufficient.)
I think I've got a better grasp of this now, hopefully that is reflected below.Celtic_Minstrel wrote:Also, to me it really doesn't fit for a soldier to level to warrior (or even the other way around)
Here's a refinement of my suggestions, with other good options added.
I'm still a little unsure about Arif -> Khalid line, other than shieldbearer/shieldmaster is not a good way to go. (It would need backup in the lore to name a unit by its secondary attack, and I'm not sure what amount, if any, would be sufficient.)
Arif Line
Hakim Line
Jundi Line
Khaiyal Line
Naffat Line
Rami Line
I think this is a good idea, though I'm not sure how to go about.Caladbolg wrote: I believe that names which have some kind of a lore tie-in (e.g. Thunderer, Drake Enforcer & Arbiter) are better than those that are a literal description of what the unit does in battle. It'd be a shame not to explore these sorts of more creative, lore-rich names when the faction has such potential for it.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
For a lore tie-in, in my opinion the obvious thing would be some sort of Jinn reference for the L3. Not exactly sure what that would look like, though.Caladbolg wrote:I believe that names which have some kind of a lore tie-in (e.g. Thunderer, Drake Enforcer & Arbiter) are better than those that are a literal description of what the unit does in battle. It'd be a shame not to explore these sorts of more creative, lore-rich names when the faction has such potential for it.
Regarding Sigurd's latest suggestions...
- I personally prefer Champion to Elite, and still dislike Khan. Other than that, I have no problems with your arif line suggestions.
- Hakim line is fine.
- The infantry -> warrior progression gives me the same sort of feeling as the soldier -> warrior one did. I don't like it. Maybe warrior -> hero -> ranger? (Not entirely satisfied with hero either, though.) For the other branch of the jundi line, no objections.
- Your horsemen seem just about perfect now.
- Still unsure about the naffat line.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
I'm fine with Champion. I wasn't sure about using Elite.Celtic_Minstrel wrote:I personally prefer Champion to Elite, and still dislike Khan. Other than that, I have no problems with your arif line suggestions.
Maybe Tarkhan for the Khalid?
I want to avoid using warrior for an Lvl 1, as all the uses in mainline are 2 or 3Celtic_Minstrel wrote:The infantry -> warrior progression gives me the same sort of feeling as the soldier -> warrior one did. I don't like it. Maybe warrior -> hero -> ranger? (Not entirely satisfied with hero either, though.) For the other branch of the jundi line, no objections.
Possibilities:
Fighter -> Warrior -> Ranger
????? -> Warrior -> Ranger
Infantry -> ??????? -> Ranger
Possibilities:Celtic_Minstrel wrote:Still unsure about the naffat line.
Flamethrower -> Scorcher -> Incinerator
Flamethrower -> Firebrand -> Firestorm
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
Fighter -> Warrior seems fine to me; "fighter" has no particular connotations and could be either a soldier-type or a warrior-type.
Regarding the khalid, I just don't particularly like (tar)khan or padishah because it's not really clear what this means. If you want something that isn't explanatory I'd probably just prefer to stick with the original name; if it's being changed, I'd prefer something more explanatory such as sultan or warlord.
For the naffat... flamethrower refers to the device, so it doesn't strike me as a good unit name. Firebrand is a great name, firestorm is pretty decent too. It could perhaps be made a bit more exotic by tweaking the spelling (eg firestrom... though that sounds vaguely Germanic which might be bad). And I still like the idea of some sort of Jinn reference for the L3, so that would give something like firebrand -> firestorm -> something jinnish. It's still pretty half-baked though...
As an aside, I'd like to draw more attention to the existing unit descriptions. Obviously these could be changed, but they might also have some useful ideas to inspire someone. Spoiler-tagged because they're a bit long. I've provided some commentary on each one, too. I didn't end up thinking of many name ideas myself, unfortunately, though I think there's one or two. There's also some lore/mechanics ideas which are a bit off-topic here.
Regarding the khalid, I just don't particularly like (tar)khan or padishah because it's not really clear what this means. If you want something that isn't explanatory I'd probably just prefer to stick with the original name; if it's being changed, I'd prefer something more explanatory such as sultan or warlord.
For the naffat... flamethrower refers to the device, so it doesn't strike me as a good unit name. Firebrand is a great name, firestorm is pretty decent too. It could perhaps be made a bit more exotic by tweaking the spelling (eg firestrom... though that sounds vaguely Germanic which might be bad). And I still like the idea of some sort of Jinn reference for the L3, so that would give something like firebrand -> firestorm -> something jinnish. It's still pretty half-baked though...
As an aside, I'd like to draw more attention to the existing unit descriptions. Obviously these could be changed, but they might also have some useful ideas to inspire someone. Spoiler-tagged because they're a bit long. I've provided some commentary on each one, too. I didn't end up thinking of many name ideas myself, unfortunately, though I think there's one or two. There's also some lore/mechanics ideas which are a bit off-topic here.
Arif Line
Hakim Line
Jundi Line
Khaiyal/Rami Lines
Naffat Line
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
Ifrit are the jinn most associated with fire. I don't know how you might turn that into a name without just using it straight. I'd think the necessary evil part refers to how burning someone alive is not normally a very fast or painless death, it's pretty horrible even if it's the 'good guys' doing it. I particularly like Arsonist (probably for the lowest level), especially if the main use is really an anti structure unit in lore. Firestorm sounds more like an attack than a unit, though I'd say the same about Inferno and Hurricane and the Drakes do that. Incendiary can also apparently be used as a noun to describe someone that cause fire. If we ever need a lvl 0 fire starter we could go with Firebug, because that's kind of a cutesy one.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam
That sounds pretty interesting, actually.Celtic_Minstrel wrote:From this description, it also seems clear that this unit is poorly represented mechanically. I'd expect it to confer an "on fire" status effect that has some similarities to poison. The naffat's specialty is not attacking humans; sure they have a flamethrower which they can use in self-defense, but their focus is more on attacking buildings. Thus, they probably use some form of naphtha, a petroleum gel that burns well and is difficult to extinguish. It could even be Greek fire (meaning it continues to burn even underwater for some period of time). The "on fire" effect, if implemented, might be extinguished only if you rest on a water tile. (I don't expect it to actually get implemented, mind you, but whatever.)
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