Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

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tkemmer
Posts: 1
Joined: February 14th, 2005, 12:17 pm

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by tkemmer »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Dialog could need some improvement, e.g. more detail on why and how orcs and undead formed alliance. The general idea of orcs and undeas combined is quite nice, though.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Lack of experienced units; I had to go back several scenarios to develop my units. Until this scenario, it was quite straightforward for me, and I didn't pay too much attention about that.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4. Simply too hard compared to the scenarios before it.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?[

To me, the thieves were not much use, not even backstabbing. It would be much better if you they were level 2 rogues, instead.

Plus, I think the undead are easier to defeat than the orcs. So, maybe the undead should switch castles with the orcs, so you encounter them first.
Elvish Scientist
Posts: 62
Joined: February 18th, 2005, 11:06 am

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by Elvish Scientist »

Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 It was the first that took me more than two trials.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It's OK, but after the first 2 times I don't read it anymore.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Creating a strong position before the skeletons are swarming the place.
It is important to start just gathering troops. Then the orks will attack at night, and you can kill them while they are in the water. Choose the right soldiers for the job. Melee vs. ranged and ranged vs. melee.
I also send a small group consising of a white mage, a knight, a second mage and one or two elves north tho cut off the road for the skeletons. The merman with the lightning is also very usefull for this.
On the second day attack the island from two sides. In this way the orks (what is left of them) are forced to divide their troups, which gives you the opportunity to gain a strong position. In the next turns finish the orks.
Then start killing the skeletons. Send a few more mages north for this job.
Attack the cave from two sides. I had a paladin in the first row with a white mage behind him, and this worked well.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Judgding from the previous comments it has changed dramatically recently. I like it as it is now (0.8.10).
mr_moose
Posts: 25
Joined: July 25th, 2004, 7:47 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Siege of Elensefar

Post by mr_moose »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy only.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9. Found it very difficult, especially if you haven't managed to get experienced units in previous scenarios. The skeletons seem to be particularly difficult to kill.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very. Kill both enemy leaders.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Quite good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Killing the skeletons.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Because it's so difficult, only a 5.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Making it easier.
silvermane
Posts: 44
Joined: November 5th, 2004, 8:40 am
Location: EU

Post by silvermane »

Plus, I think the undead are easier to defeat than the orcs. So, maybe the undead should switch castles with the orcs, so you encounter them first.
You must have had your mages developed. I find it difficult to promote mages, because they're fragile and need lots of experience, almost twice that of a common fighter or archer type (but that's the result of their superior attack abilities).

silvermane
UncleZeiv
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Joined: October 7th, 2004, 12:42 pm
Location: Italy
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Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by UncleZeiv »

EDIT: this is about the map as it is in 0.8.10
Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy
Dave wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
The first time terrible, the second time I ran out of turns, the third time I won at the very last turn, the fourth time I won several turns in advance (recruiting loads of mages): 7.
Dave wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
Dave wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I'm sorry, but I don't think that the storyline is the most gripping part of Wesnoth :) Furthermore, the choice about thieves is pointless.
Dave wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Completing it without running out of turns: it takes a lot of time to kill the second enemy.
Dave wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
Dave wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Although it is probably the most difficult scenario I have played so far, I wouldn't say that making it simpler would help. You could add some items (I like items :D )
UncleZeiv
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Post by UncleZeiv »

silvermane wrote:
Plus, I think the undead are easier to defeat than the orcs.
You must have had your mages developed. I find it difficult to promote mages
Or, you need loads of them :mrgreen:

_dave_
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Zhukov
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Post by Zhukov »

1) Difficulty played:
Medium only

2) Difficulty to finish
8/10 - One of those levels where its pain-in-the-bckside hard, until you find the perfect tactic and everything just clicks in place.

3) Objective clarity:
Clear. (If you ask me, this particular question is a kinda pointless, the objectives are always clear, in this campaign at least)

4) Dialog:
While not exactly great, and kind of corny, the dialog explained everything it needed to. The part with the helpful thieves was nicely explained.

5) Challenges:
Apart from the usual "keeping units alive," most troubles stemmed from not being able to overrun the city before the skele's started trickling in to reinforce the orcs.
For me the key to this level was to establish double bridgeheads, at the south and east entrances. While at the same time using a couple of scouts to cross at the east (they can get across without the thief ford) to draw off enemy forces. If the enemy focuses on the west bridgehead then I attack with the southern forces and vica versa.
The advancing skele's were killed using the north bridges as chokepoints.
The final leader was easier when, instead of fighting on the bad ground in the cave, I stationed a couple of supported mages at each entrance and toasted the skele's one by one as they left the cave.

6) Fun:
7/10 - Definately enjoyable, but took me a bit too long to find a viable tactic. But I guess that is my fault, not the game's.

7) SoE could do with some tweaking, but to be honost I dont really know what exactly. (well, isn't that constructive :?). Some other people have mentioned the idea that Rogues would be better then thieves. I second that. It would turn the second thief option (attack on signal) into an assassination rather then the distraction it is. In fact the prospect of surrounding that smirking warlord with backstabbing rogues in the night has a certain appeal. :twisted:
Aloo
Posts: 18
Joined: July 21st, 2005, 10:49 am
Location: Poland

Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by Aloo »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Easy, Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

8 Hardest scenario for beggining player

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear and very intresting.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Monitoring day/night cycle. Not loosing too many leveled units

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

The scenario is a bit too hard for new players two of my friends uninstalled the game after not coping with this scenario. I had to give it 3 go's on easy the first time I played. Now its doable on medium.
Jabberwocky
Posts: 3
Joined: December 11th, 2005, 9:31 pm

Post by Jabberwocky »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9 - very difficult

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear and nice.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Finishing the scenario, not getting overrun by the ongoing enemies.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1 - no fun at all. At first, it seems challenging, then it turns to frustrating soon :-(

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make it a bit easier, please. I start with 222 gp but I wasn't able to finish the scenario yet, no matter which tactic I use. If I split my forces, then the orc leader manages to summon fresh reserves and the skeletons massacre my units. If I kill him first, then my forces get massacred by the orcs and I don't have the money to summon new forces to stop the undead. If I send some units to sway the skeletons from their path, the undead just don't care and keep marching southwards. I tried out every possible combination of units (including mermen with a storm trident) but the scenario is just too hard. The thieves are no real help and they get killed by the orcs very quickly. I know that this scenario should be hard but to me it seems to be impossible. At least with the resources I have (I'm new to the game so I have no idea whether 222 gp, a paladin, an elven marksman and a couple of 2nd level units are too little at this level or not). I hate cheating but I'll just have to in order to be able to go through this one :-(
Bragador
Posts: 25
Joined: February 9th, 2006, 7:28 pm

Post by Bragador »

1.0.2 now loaded under 1.1 (save is still showing as 1.0.2 though so...

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
ok but the reason for the orcs and undead to join forces are not clear

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I can't finish the scenario (first time I play the game, and first campaignI do) I 'll have to restart the whole game I think. Perhaps on easy ? I'm starting the game with 136 gold pieces and 1 level 2 hunter. The rest are normal level 1 units. I find it hard to do something useful. (oh and I took the isle of the damn path since I couldn't kill the land leader... after reading a bit it seems it wasn't the best choice but I didn't know the path wasn't linear)
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1 - I keep getting gang banged

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I don't know enough about the game to give advice yet. The thieves are useless so, maybe more than 3 thieves ? or perhaps 3 level 2 thieves instead ? I'm being raped here people ! Help ! Tough scenario !

edit : Oh perhaps a third choice from the thieves ? What about a free shipment of gold ?
Last edited by Bragador on February 10th, 2006, 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anyar
Posts: 191
Joined: July 25th, 2005, 9:18 pm
Location: MI

Post by Anyar »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
All(This is based on hard, which I have played most recently)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7, having the thieves appear in the town make it too easy to take, it is far too easy to draw the ai into the water to attempt attacks on units, then be destroyed by using leadership(marshals and Konrad) and fighters. The undead also suicide attack and disperse themselves, which makes getting to the undead base easy.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very clear, it seemed to be very well done.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Getting to the undead leader in time, it took me about 5 turns to break through his shield of skelles.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10, challenging, and it makes you think.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Nothing I can think of.
Even as the fingers of the two hands are equal, so are human beings equal to one another. No one has any right, nor any preference to claim over another. You are brothers. - Muhammed
rocinante
Posts: 5
Joined: February 12th, 2006, 10:39 am

Post by rocinante »

1. Only played it on Medium

2. 7. Challenging, HttT is still easier than the other scenarios I have tried.

3. Very clear

4. Story seems more developed than other levels.

5. Very challenging although I won on first try. As attacking immediately would have forced a night battle, I waited until morning and the skeletons were in town by then. Konrad almost got killed by the orcs and then almost got killed again by the necromancer and finished on turn 24 with 7/71 HP. Leadership played a huge role on this level. Heavily used druids and bandits, although many died I was able to level up new ones.

6. I'd give it a 10. You really have to pull all the stops out and use strategy on this level, guarding bridges, hiding elves in the trees, etc.

7. The thieves have a good story, they weren't very useful fighting although sacrificing them against the orc leader took him down faster.
Flametrooper
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Post by Flametrooper »

UncleZeiv wrote:
silvermane wrote: You must have had your mages developed. I find it difficult to promote mages
Or, you need loads of them :mrgreen:

_dave_
I had an Arch Mage, a Red Mage, and a White Mage, plus a regular mage with 40/60 XP, by this time. (0.7 on Easy) I geuss it was mainly because
(A) you can recruit mages in Blackwater Port on 0.7, giving you more time to level them up, and
(2) I was lucky and got lots of intelligent mages.
Shakiko
Posts: 25
Joined: March 13th, 2006, 10:14 am

Post by Shakiko »

1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

medium, hard

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

In general it might be one of the hardest scenarios in the campaign. Compared to other scenarios/campaigns its not a "10" though.


(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I really liked the thieves helping out
something new to the boring "build up army, kill everyone"-Objective =]


(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I guess I got lucky, but the major challenge for me was not getting into the city but keeping my troops alive when storming the cave of the undead leader.


(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

It was challenging but with tactics you could lure single units out (esp the 3 thieves helped to lure 4 orcs away)...really enjoyable - 8


(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

uhm.. I guess none, as i liked it the way it was in 1.11 when i played on hard - esp. the idea of thieves giving you a 3rd way into the city was nice and really helpful.
jro
Posts: 6
Joined: April 14th, 2006, 5:33 am

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by jro »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
I just started playing the game, and I think it's impossible.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
They are perfectly clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
No objections.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I get annihalted by the undead dudes as I'm trying to take out the Orc leader. Like 7 times in a row.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
0 fun.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I keep seeing people writing threads about how you are supposed to beat this level. They all seem to presume that I have tons of leveled guys and 300+ gold. Sorry, but I just made it here by the skin of my teeth. And after trying and failing for like 4 hours, I'm supposed to go back and replay the earlier levels? And I see that there's some secret dude you get from the Island of the Dead-- well the first tomb I looked in had the extra baddies in it that preceded to slaughter my whole army, so when I replayed that one, I was like "I'm not going anywhere near those tombs, they killed me dead." Plus, I apparently was supposed to go the other way (rather than the island) because that's the recommended path for noobs, according to the walkthrough. (Of couse the game itself says nothing about that.)

I thought part of the Wesnoth philosophy was that fighting with leveled units was supposed to be a bonus, not the very lifeblood of the game. I feel like without a walkthrough (and I've read all of the threads about this level), there is no chance in hell that I would ever beat this, and I'd probably stop playing the game. As you can tell, I'm frustrated beyond compare. I absolutely adored Master of Monsters back on my Genesis, and I was so psyched to see this, but I'm afraid the frustration level may just be too high for me. I do wish those of you working on it all the best; it's a great engine, and the interface, simpicity, etc., are all great.

PS. Please don't respond to this with the "it's Free so don't complain / fix it yourself" argument.
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