Feedback requested: MP lobby game info redesign

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Feedback requested: MP lobby game info redesign

Postby vultraz » October 29th, 2017, 11:11 pm

For the next (1.13.11) release, I'm working on a simplification of the game display in the MP Lobby:

lobby.PNG

The main goal was to simplify and clean up the layout in order to keep the most pertinent info immediately visible and secondary info cordoned away in a tooltip. Here's a list of the changes from the current (1.13.10) version:

  • The minimap has been made 10 px larger. This was to accommodate the 5 px borders, so now the actual map image is 72x72.
  • Game name and scenario name have swapped places, and the latter is now larger.
  • Game names are no longer colorized based on the number of vacant slots or whether you can observe the game or not.
  • The Turns/Slots label coloring has been toned down and been made larger. It is now either white (game has started), green (vacant slots available), or yellow (vacant slots available for reloaded game).
  • The Turns limit no longer displays "/-" for games with unlimited turns. Now you just get "Turn n".
  • Due to 1bfa170, proper names of all missing content is displayed. I also got rid of those "Unknown Scenario"/"Unknown Campaign" labels in favor of a simple red-color game type token (S or C), respectively.
  • All game setting info has been moved to a tooltip attached to an info icon, except those for Password Required and Observes Allowed.
  • Era and active Modification info is now in the same tooltip.
  • The info icon will also change color (and its tooltip display a message) if the player need to download additional content to join that game.

I was hoping to get some feedback from people who play MP frequently. What do you think of this design? Are you ok with info such as Era and Mods not being immediately visible?

Thanks! :)

(This thread will be locked after the release of 1.13.11)
Creator of Shadows of Deception (for 1.12) and co-creator of the Era of Chaos (for 1.12/1.13).
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Re: Feedback requested: MP lobby game info redesign

Postby Ravana » November 2nd, 2017, 4:32 pm

Era should be immediately visible.

For modifications, any way that allows seeing them all, even when there are ~10 active, would be improvement. Tooltip idea works. Showing however many fit without tooltip in addition to tooltip would be better still.
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Re: Feedback requested: MP lobby game info redesign

Postby Computer_Player » November 14th, 2017, 4:09 am

Having observe/join for each individual game is less simple than the current setup IMHO.

I agree that Era should be viewable (for quick alt-tab referencing); Mod is ok hidden since you don't need to download it to join (usually)

Some sort of colour code for "observers on / off" as well.

Timer setting indicator would be nice as well. (Full details or just an hourglass to show that there IS one and you can hover for details.. up to you.)
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Re: Feedback requested: MP lobby game info redesign

Postby Kipples » November 14th, 2017, 7:46 am

I need to be able to see if a game is using map settings or not, not clear in this design how this is done.

The games' title is more important to me than which scenario it is. when scrolling through the list I will usually look at the minimap to determine scenario followed by the title then everything else (ums, era, timer, obs etc.) please make the game title more prominent, (larger size and brighter colour).

as for the buttons i could take it or leave it. I will 99% of the time double click to enter the scenario. If we are redesigning the UI please make the quick/normal/blind replay options easier to work with it is very frustrating logging in the next day and having something set that you didn't want going back to lobby and re-entering. would much prefer a way to be prompted each time I observed a game over current system.

I get the goal is to simplify the UI and this seems to be an adequate solution to that problem but who is this simplification benefitting is it intended for newer players? right now this does nothing for me personally your just shuffling things around running the risk of introducing a regression in the user experience.
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Re: Feedback requested: MP lobby game info redesign

Postby Computer_Player » November 14th, 2017, 9:49 am

Oh I thought the scenario was the one in the subtitle. Yeah, Title must be prominent since often it is where makers put their condition/ requests i.e. New players only, or Ladder games, etc.
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Re: Feedback requested: MP lobby game info redesign

Postby Mint » November 14th, 2017, 10:40 am

Default map settings immediately visible is a must.

A large chunk of games have mods enabled, and most of the time different combinations of mods. With mods hidden in the tooltip, it's a necessity to look at the tooltips each and every time - what if a player likes one but another is a total deal breaker? (The relevant mod to me is XP mod which is one of the most commonly used). Game hunting will take more time, by a small amount. I would say this is as important as the era, but to fit 10+ mod names in at once is definitely better with the tooltip, so maybe tooltip is best.

+1 to title being more important than scenario name (the minimap is faster). The title is also important to find specific games of the same scenario. When there are multiples of the same scenario running at the same time, the proposed setup will make it harder to find individual games such as when rejoining a game after a disconnection.

Scenario by itself is not a useful identifier. Standard Player vs Player, Survival maps like Dark Forecast, and scenarios with RPG elements are all quite different. I'd also say that team games are also significantly different (e.g. 2v2s vs 1v1s). Maybe some more specific scenario identifiers can be added? This is also relevant to the add-on server list.

I also think the timer is important to be immediately visible. Most players can't play well in super-fast 60 seconds turns matches and death by timer is probably the saddest way to lose.

If join/observe is kept for individual games, disable the join and observe options when additional download content is required.

The tooltips could stand to be a bit larger to have a larger radius to hover over.

The huge gap between short titles and vacant slot (like in the top game in the screenshot) feel like a lot of wastefully empty space. This is also an issue with the 1.12.x lobby and it's been bugging me for years.

Thanks for the work you're doing. :)
Last edited by Mint on November 15th, 2017, 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Feedback requested: MP lobby game info redesign

Postby gfgtdf » November 14th, 2017, 2:10 pm

The new system forces you to look at that tooltip for basicially every game since th information there mods used etc. will change the game complateley. In particulat tha is
-mods, i think that advantage of beeing able to list every mod in tha tooltip rather small, if you see games with like >8 mods in the 1.12 you basicially know that they activated more or less allthey have and you usually don't even look at the list. If you want to search for games with a certain mod active you would usually just the lobbys search function. On the other hand the inability to see them in the main lobby screen is significant since it requires you to look at that tooltip of every game to make sure ou don't join a game with uncommon game mechnics. In theory it woudl be enough to have an indicator whether a game is ''without gamechanging mods' on the main lobby list but the problem is that the the game itself cannot know whether a certain mod has a rater small ('pick your advancements', 'corpse mode', 'wc2 custom terrain', 'rav color mod') impact on the actual game or changes/add game mechnics ('xp mod', 'add more unit advancemnts' etc...)

- use default mpa settings: while this is an imporant property in theory, i noticed that i myself often don't even look at it since the chance that a game uses strange map setings is quite small. So i don't really have an opinion on this one.

- Era, well yes this is one of the most imporant factors to the game so obviously it should be visible immidiateley.

- timer settings: yes this is also quite imporant, for me it matters more whether the timer is active or not then the concreate settings. Specialyl in survival maps i usually expect timers off (who would want to loose becasue thery teammates timer ran out of time anyways).

I also agree with game name beeing more imporant that scnairo name, since one usually uses the map image to distinguish the scneario anywys.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.
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Re: Feedback requested: MP lobby game info redesign

Postby Can-ned_Food » November 15th, 2017, 3:30 am

Modifications are important — especially because some of them aren't split into modules for those which use “core” components and those which require additional resources.
Color Mod is a good example: depending on how you configure it, it can either work with core resources or it can require each user to have it installed.
Better to make your modifications more modular, but hey. I'm also not disparaging Ravana and his work; making two add-ons for Color Mod would, of course, make that many more tiny data when installed on your storage devices.

Would it be better for each node to compare lists of all resources which aren't transmitted from the host with those available locally? That would much increase the delay when starting multiplayer matches, though.

Well, I'm too busy to do anything about all that, so never mind me if you like.
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Re: Feedback requested: MP lobby game info redesign

Postby vultraz » November 15th, 2017, 6:15 am

Well, I can't say I'm exactly happy that you guys don't really like my design. :( I'll return to the drawing board and try to come up with a layout that satisfies everyone. I can't guarantee all desired info will be present, but I'll do my best to make the most important stuff visible.
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Re: Feedback requested: MP lobby game info redesign

Postby gfgtdf » November 15th, 2017, 11:08 am

Can-ned_Food wrote:Modifications are important — especially because some of them aren't split into modules for those which use “core” components and those which require additional resources.
Color Mod is a good example: depending on how you configure it, it can either work with core resources or it can require each user to have it installed.

Note that 1.13 has a featue which asks you whether you want to automaticially download all needed addons from the addon server if you want to join a game, so this one might not be an issue anymore.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.
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Re: Feedback requested: MP lobby game info redesign

Postby The_Gnat » November 16th, 2017, 5:40 am

It is great that so many people have posted feedback on the new design, and I personally like the simplified look of the menu system! :) Though of course i understand that not everyone's opinions can be accommodated, here is mine:

- i do agree with the many of people who have stated that the Modifications should be immediately visible, and that a tooltip should be added to allow for viewing multiple modifications
- i agree with gfgtdf and ravana that the Era should be immediately visible

After these two nothing else is critical. If i am interested in playing with that Era and those Modifications then i am happy to click to view more details. This means that i do not think it necessary to show Timer, or Default Settings, or info in the main menu. And i think it probably better not to because it makes the menu simpler and better looking without.

- Personally i don't care at all whether name of the map or name of the game comes first. They are both visible and i will read both so it doesn't really matter. Because of my neutral opinion i would probably suggest no change is made, but i don't really see any reason to complain either way. (that said, i like the idea of the map name coming first because it makes the menu look more clean)

- While i can understand why default map settings are important (because a game with 30% xp ratio is certainly something worth mentioning). I hold to my opinion that if i like the Era/Mods then i will click on the game to view

Kipples wrote:I get the goal is to simplify the UI and this seems to be an adequate solution to that problem but who is this simplification benefitting is it intended for newer players? right now this does nothing for me personally your just shuffling things around running the risk of introducing a regression in the user experience.


I personally disagree. 1.13 has seen massive changes in UI including the main menu, multiplayer hosting menu, and add-on menu, and i see this as another step in making the wesnoth menu look really awesome! 8)

Also new players will probably be worth considering since i hear that wesnoth plans on going to steam and that will probably bring quite a few new players. The current multiplayer system is less than intuitive and i think this will be a good improvement! :)


(Good work Vultraz, try not to be too discouraged by the feedback i think that you are certainly aiming in the right direction)
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Re: Feedback requested: MP lobby game info redesign

Postby GunChleoc » November 17th, 2017, 10:25 am

Vultraz, please don't be discouraged - the comments don't mean that your design sucks, they mean that people care enough about this to provide ideas to make it even better :)

About the mods list, how about listing the first few and then have a "..." button to signal that there are more hidden in a tooltip?
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