[UMC] mod API for Wesnoth

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:

[UMC] mod API for Wesnoth

Postby intenscia » November 3rd, 2017, 5:56 am

Hi everyone, I'm new here but long time supporter of mods and creator of moddb.com. I'm posting to discuss something which I believe could be a great addition to the Wesnoth project.

For the past year we have been working on a mod API called mod.io. Our goal is to create an open modding platform, that provides an easy-to-use interface to browse and install mods on the web and in-game. Addons play a huge role in The Battle of Wesnoth (you've done an amazing job supporting them) and if you want to enhance your addon functionality by including a web interface, not have to worry about the bandwidth or servers, mod.io could be a great fit.

You can take a look at a demonstration i've setup (with entirely faked data so please excuse it) to get an idea of how it all works. Please ask me anything and if a developer from the community is interested in integrating mod.io - we'd be happy to assist and help take modding to the next level.
User avatar
intenscia
 
Posts: 5
Joined: November 3rd, 2017, 3:47 am

Re: [UMC] mod API for Wesnoth

Postby Tad_Carlucci » November 3rd, 2017, 6:26 am

I see a lot of UI but no API.

If your goal is to run a private repository for Wesnoth UMC, I don't see how anyone can stop you. But you're going to need to figure out how to version the content so your user, running one version of Wesnoth, doesn't declare your site an odious pile of male bovine by-product when the content utterly fails because it was for another.

Maybe what you need to do is work with the Wesnoth web site team to merge your ideas into the Wesnoth site, instead.
I forked real life and now I'm getting merge conflicts.
Tad_Carlucci
Developer
 
Posts: 203
Joined: April 24th, 2016, 4:18 pm

Re: [UMC] mod API for Wesnoth

Postby intenscia » November 3rd, 2017, 6:30 am

API documentation can be found here.

How does it currently work for Wesnoth? Where are the mods downloaded from? Our API doesn't manage mod / game versioning and compatibility directly, but the developer implementing it could use tags or metadata to achieve that.
User avatar
intenscia
 
Posts: 5
Joined: November 3rd, 2017, 3:47 am

Re: [UMC] mod API for Wesnoth

Postby Tad_Carlucci » November 3rd, 2017, 7:08 am

Ah. So you're simply advertising your product.

Well, not handling versioning and other compatibility issues is a major design oversight. You might want to fix that and try again.

If someone wants to pick it up and run with it that's up to them.

But we already HAVE a system in place.

I imagine you'll find it very difficult to convince someone to pick up your product, especially since you're only providing a part of the solution,

You might have better luck marketing if you targeted games still in initial development instead of mature systems who are long past the initial design phase where your current product might reduce the workload a bit.
I forked real life and now I'm getting merge conflicts.
Tad_Carlucci
Developer
 
Posts: 203
Joined: April 24th, 2016, 4:18 pm

Re: [UMC] mod API for Wesnoth

Postby Pentarctagon » November 3rd, 2017, 7:08 am

Wesnoth has an in-game add-ons manager, as well as addons.wesnoth.org.

Separating add-ons by Wesnoth version is definitely a hard requirement though - there are usually multiple breaking changes between major stable versions(ie: 1.10 -> 1.12, 1.12 -> 1.14), and many add-ons for previous versions of Wesnoth simply don't work with newer versions if they are no longer maintained.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
User avatar
Pentarctagon
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 2948
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: [UMC] mod API for Wesnoth

Postby intenscia » November 3rd, 2017, 12:26 pm

Not advertising our product (it's actually hasn't launched yet). Sorry if it came across that way, i'd be happy to have this discussion in private if you'd prefer.

We've wondered about mods and versioning, it's a complex problem to solve, since most games are not great about communicating their version system and releases with mod creators. As an open source game you are clearly way ahead in this regard, and have a good system in place as a result. Does this mean each time you release a new version, addon creators need to check their compatibility and select each version they are compatible with, or they have to upload a new build? Great feedback, thanks for helping me understand how you approach this, as no mod systems do a good job of compatibility and usually leave moderation up to the community.

Regarding our targeting - we hope there is a chance we can help all game regardless of their development phase. Wesnoth was more of a longshot given you have a system in place, but on the off chance you were thinking of upgrading or changing it, a conversation doesn't hurt.

What parts of your system would you like improved just out of interest?
User avatar
intenscia
 
Posts: 5
Joined: November 3rd, 2017, 3:47 am

Re: [UMC] mod API for Wesnoth

Postby Tad_Carlucci » November 3rd, 2017, 1:26 pm

Yes, the UMC author uploads a new version, if one is required. Often, this happens as the new version is being developed. That way: we get testing, they get out there earlier, and the players have a good selection of UMC out of the gate.

Rather than ask us and hope to glean some insights into what your product should be doing, it would work a lot better if you joined in and got some real-world experience. That is, after all, why Open Source works so well. We get some help. You get experience and a better product.
I forked real life and now I'm getting merge conflicts.
Tad_Carlucci
Developer
 
Posts: 203
Joined: April 24th, 2016, 4:18 pm

Re: [UMC] mod API for Wesnoth

Postby Pentarctagon » November 3rd, 2017, 1:39 pm

intenscia wrote:We've wondered about mods and versioning, it's a complex problem to solve, since most games are not great about communicating their version system and releases with mod creators. As an open source game you are clearly way ahead in this regard, and have a good system in place as a result. Does this mean each time you release a new version, addon creators need to check their compatibility and select each version they are compatible with, or they have to upload a new build? Great feedback, thanks for helping me understand how you approach this, as no mod systems do a good job of compatibility and usually leave moderation up to the community.


Minor stable releases(1.12.1, 1.12.2, etc) are meant to be compatible with each other, but compatibility between major stable releases is not something that's even really aimed for. Development minor releases(1.11.x, 1.13.x) can also have breaking changes or deprecations, so it is possible for an add-on to work with 1.13.3 and then not work with 1.13.4.

intenscia wrote:Not advertising our product (it's actually hasn't launched yet). Sorry if it came across that way, i'd be happy to have this discussion in private if you'd prefer.

...

Regarding our targeting - we hope there is a chance we can help all game regardless of their development phase. Wesnoth was more of a longshot given you have a system in place, but on the off chance you were thinking of upgrading or changing it, a conversation doesn't hurt.

What parts of your system would you like improved just out of interest?


If this is something you're really interested in pursuing, then other good places to ask are Wesnoth's IRC and Discord chats.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
User avatar
Pentarctagon
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 2948
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: [UMC] mod API for Wesnoth

Postby intenscia » November 6th, 2017, 1:32 am

I'm on the discord learning how things are done, and getting familiar with how addons are added and maintained. We are discussing internally how to manage versioning - as your way of having different repos for addons based on the game versions seems to be a rather effective system.

Will continue to report back as we make progress.
User avatar
intenscia
 
Posts: 5
Joined: November 3rd, 2017, 3:47 am

Re: [UMC] mod API for Wesnoth

Postby GunChleoc » November 10th, 2017, 6:33 pm

You might also be interested in looking at phpBB. It's not a game, but they do have a working extensions database with versioning.
User avatar
GunChleoc
Translator
 
Posts: 389
Joined: September 28th, 2012, 7:35 am

Re: [UMC] mod API for Wesnoth

Postby intenscia » November 14th, 2017, 9:16 am

Will take a look at phpBB. Our use case is a little different as we are trying to support games of all shapes and sizes - whilst not offering an overly complex product both for game developers and mod creators.
User avatar
intenscia
 
Posts: 5
Joined: November 3rd, 2017, 3:47 am


Return to Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 6 guests