My Terrain (Mine!)

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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » September 5th, 2017, 4:55 am

The_Gnat wrote:No disrespect intended to anyone involved but personally i do not really like the normal sand castle. It looks more like made of clay or something like that and does not really fit into the desert scenery (i think partly because of its background which looks to clean and like a cobbled road), but the ruined version is not bad looks a little more like it is actually in the desert. Perhaps would could have an alternate stone-desert castle that is made in a similar style to the really awesome desert mountains that were added in 1.13! :D
Speaking as the fool who drew both the sand castle and the desert mountains, I am a bit confused by your complaint/compliment... The material of construction in such environs is a bit like clay (term is "adobe", though maybe even "stucco" would apply). Mud bricks, in any case. Would the desert people like living in sandy squalor, or would they (like anyone else) prefer having clean cobbles to walk around on? They probably hate the damned sand more than most people.
The_Gnat wrote:Here is a quick edit of the mountains to create a image of what i visualize the rocky castle might look like:
I appreciate that you offered an illustration to make your point; it means you gave this some thought and this isn't some internet drive-by. But turning that into a castle would be ... not something I want to get involved in. (The difficulty in terrain art is all the transitions, not the base image.)

Not that my opinions should govern what other volunteers work on, but my gut reaction would be pretty similar to Celtic_Minstrel 's. If The_Gnat or anyone else wants to work on such a castle, I'd recommend using the default castle as a template for positioning and terrain rules. Don't use the dwarf castle, it has its own geometry and doesn't usually play well with the others campe/castle terrains (though it does play well with the cave,chasm, and lave terrains, while avoiding the castle-keep headache.)
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby The_Gnat » September 5th, 2017, 5:20 am

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:That doesn't really look like a castle at all to me, and if it was, I'd have to assume trolls (or I suppose maybe dwarves) lived in it. I think the existing desert castle is perfectly serviceable.


:D Good point. Yes, as i said, it is not really a impressive work of art. ;)

doofus01 wrote:Speaking as the fool who drew both the sand castle and the desert mountains, I am a bit confused by your complaint/compliment... The material of construction in such environs is a bit like clay (term is "adobe", though maybe even "stucco" would apply). Mud bricks, in any case. Would the desert people like living in sandy squalor, or would they (like anyone else) prefer having clean cobbles to walk around on? They probably hate the damned sand more than most people.


:P Sorry about being confusing. It was a compliment because i really like the desert mountains. However, my point in plain english was that i do not like the adobe castle as much as some of other castles because it doesn't seem to fit into the scenery. But it is not badly drawn (and yes i agree that logically that is probably similar to what it would look like if desert people made a castle).

doofus01 wrote:But turning that into a castle would be ... not something I want to get involved in.


Fair enough, you already are working on a lot of good images and it is not at all my intention to be rude.

doofus01 wrote:(The difficulty in terrain art is all the transitions, not the base image.) Not that my opinions should govern what other volunteers work on, but my gut reaction would be pretty similar to Celtic_Minstrel 's. If The_Gnat or anyone else wants to work on such a castle, I'd recommend using the default castle as a template for positioning and terrain rules. Don't use the dwarf castle, it has its own geometry and doesn't usually play well with the others campe/castle terrains (though it does play well with the cave,chasm, and lave terrains, while avoiding the castle-keep headache.)


Thank you for the tip on making terrains, however, i probably will trust your gut.

Though perhaps i might draw a few franken-images of the desert mountains that could be used to transition between the desert castle and desert mountains. :D
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby ForestDragon » September 5th, 2017, 12:50 pm

small idea: I think it would look better if you made the palette of the stone tiles resemble the palette of the stone wall terrain's sides a bit more, so that these two terrains blend in better with eachother (or maybe you could make an alternative version with the stone wall palette).
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » September 10th, 2017, 4:53 am

ForestDragon wrote:I think it would look better if you made the palette of the stone tiles resemble the palette of the stone wall terrain's sides a bit more, so that these two terrains blend in better with eachother (or maybe you could make an alternative version with the stone wall palette).
Yeah, I think it would be better if there were a grungy variation at some point later. But I don't want to get distracted by that for now, just get one version working.

I've got some chasm transitions, they might be "acceptable" for lava too, if there's a WML way to extend the red glow. Water transitions (docks?) still need to be done, I'm thinking to use the wooden borders.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby The_Gnat » September 10th, 2017, 5:32 am

Nice, i really like the tile transition, It makes the chasm look really good with the tiles! :D
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » September 10th, 2017, 1:59 pm

I think I see a problem at the wall-tile-chasm corner on the far left... and a second problem a bit further to the right...
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby Samonella » September 10th, 2017, 3:44 pm

doofus-01 wrote:Water transitions (docks?) still need to be done, I'm thinking to use the wooden borders.
Actually I think the stone->water looks fine without a transition. It looks like there are probably stone supports (like the chasm ones) that are just hidden by the water. But if you want to make a transition I'm sure it will be great too. Thanks for making these, it all looks awesome!
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » September 11th, 2017, 4:58 am

Thanks for the interest. :)

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:I think I see a problem at the wall-tile-chasm corner on the far left... and a second problem a bit further to the right...
Samonella wrote:Actually I think the stone->water looks fine without a transition. It looks like there are probably stone supports (like the chasm ones) that are just hidden by the water.
Yeah, upon second thought, maybe the "docks" transition idea should be scrapped. The number of transition images needed so far is blowing up in my face. That's not really a problem in the long run, as long as the new images and rules don't create new clashes, which they very well may. The glitch in the castle-chasm transition that Celtic_Minstrel pointed out is an example of the (3 or 4 dimension) sliding block puzzle terrain-graphics is. I've bumped the base image layer of the wood and stone floors up significantly, so it is above those transition images - but who knows what problems that will cause down the line.

I've got most of the rules worked out, I think. Some images are missing, for example that razor-sharp black-white edge near the cursor image, but the other snow terrains show how I'm dealing with that.

The unpleasant problem that I'm facing is exemplified in the crap to the right of the mushrooms (either patch). The transition images hang out so much that they clash if there is a vertical one-hex-wide break in the terrain. It's not impossible to deal with this, but let's hold off until the very end, when everything else is set in stone.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » September 17th, 2017, 1:15 am

I've updated the PR for the stone tiles for (mostly) complete transitions. There are still some cases that are less than perfect, but I don't think there are any outright broken cases (though I'm not betting any money on it).
screenshot
Screenshot_chasm-stone.jpg

The brick-like vertical borders (near the mushrooms or the golden-hex cursor, for example) are to deal with the awkward crowding caused by how far the transitions reach into the neighbor hex. The little blocks at the end of some of those bricks are to deal with bad transitions caused by interactions with tiles<->chasm<->other_terrain.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby The_Gnat » September 18th, 2017, 12:23 am

You've done a really good job with all the transitions, i don't see any problems with the tiles. :D

A small idea: you might put some snow on the tiles near snow spaces, but you've already done a lot so you might not want to do any more for the tile transitions and it is not really necessary.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » September 18th, 2017, 3:11 am

Thanks, The_Gnat.
They got committed and will be available in 1.13.9, but there were problems I'd overlooked. I've got a new PR that I think fixes (almost) everything, and adds a new wall variation that should fit better with these stone tiles. (Not that grungy tiles are off the table, but I could more quickly make a "clean" wall variation for now.)
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Image gets chopped, visit PR for better view: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/2014
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby ForestDragon » September 18th, 2017, 4:40 am

great! :D btw, since you said making new wall variations is easier than making tile ones (due to the lower amount of transitions), I think it would be nice if there was a wall type that fits with the dark tiles terrain (I forgot the exact name)
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » Yesterday, 4:23 am

ForestDragon wrote:I think it would be nice if there was a wall type that fits with the dark tiles terrain (I forgot the exact name)
That's not a bad idea. The walls also need a chasm transition - they currently use the castle-chasm transition.
Kwandulin wrote:On a sidenote: Is there a chance to get the stony troll encampment you did some years ago into the game? It'd be awesome to have some more natural encampments. Also they would certainly fit well with that mainline troll valley scenario in AOI.
I haven't played AOI, but I think I get what you mean. This is a touch-up to the old "troll" encampment available in Archaic Resources. It's a work-in-progress.
screenshot
And of course the RNG does everything it can to screw things up; the corner stones & pikes are supposed to be random! :? Ideally, we shall also have an animated flame included in the roster, but not for now.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby The_Gnat » Yesterday, 5:46 am

Awesome! :D This is a way better troll castle than anything i could have ever come up with ^_^
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » Yesterday, 11:48 pm

Thanks. I've got the images pretty much completed, and although some tweaks and variations are probably still needed, I don't think anything is broken. I've got a PR open for it, but it probably isn't in time for the next release. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/2038

screenshot
Screenshot_troll.jpg
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