Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls
Moderator: Forum Moderators
I also like BoP. When i first played, i lost because my mermen got bad luck (or i sucked... that was a while ago), then i realized what strategy means. So you could say BoP was the first scenario i played that required skill. 
(Dacyn wants these to continue because he's already written them all for almost all of HttT.
)
(Dacyn wants these to continue because he's already written them all for almost all of HttT.
)For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
Comments relative to wesnoth-0.8:
(1) played: medium, easy, hard
(2) difficulty: 4-8
Medium seemed the most difficult. On easy there were not many enemies to deal with, on hard enough units had advanced in previous scenarios to deal with the waves of orcs and troll whelps, but on medium there were lots of enemies and not enough high level units to deal with them. Restating the 'attack during the day, for then the orcs are at their weakest, but avoid conflict at night, when darkness aids their cause' doctrine would probably be useful here, perhaps as parting advice from Delfador.
(3) Objectives: clear, but the different options for travel should be made clearer, perhaps through advice from Delfador: '[sea orc] controls the seas and must be defeated if we are to travel by ship; or for safe passage overland, you will need to overcome [land orc].'
(4) Dialog/storyline: it's not made completely clear why the merfolk have to be rescued -- is it to stop the queen from amassing great wealth, or is it because we may need the merfolk to help us in the campaign, or because we are hono(u)ring an ancient alliance?
(5) Challenges: sticking to just a few focused goals at any time, or risk being swamped. On hard, finishing with over 100 gold.
The mermen allies seemed to work best when staying E, out of range of the recruited nagas, to get to the SE cage and trident, with perhaps one or two sacrificing themselves to draw the main force of the sea orc to the north. It was also crucial to have a balanced force on land and not be overambitious in taking villages before they could be supported. An extra tweak that helped a lot was recruiting and recalling troops in pairs (one fast, one slow), so that the island didn't become a bottleneck; took quite a bit of experience to work this one out, and this is something that may be worthwhile putting into the tutorial.
(6) Fun: 7-9, depending on one's mix of available troops.
(7) Changes: see comments above, mostly dialogue and hints.
(1) played: medium, easy, hard
(2) difficulty: 4-8
Medium seemed the most difficult. On easy there were not many enemies to deal with, on hard enough units had advanced in previous scenarios to deal with the waves of orcs and troll whelps, but on medium there were lots of enemies and not enough high level units to deal with them. Restating the 'attack during the day, for then the orcs are at their weakest, but avoid conflict at night, when darkness aids their cause' doctrine would probably be useful here, perhaps as parting advice from Delfador.
(3) Objectives: clear, but the different options for travel should be made clearer, perhaps through advice from Delfador: '[sea orc] controls the seas and must be defeated if we are to travel by ship; or for safe passage overland, you will need to overcome [land orc].'
(4) Dialog/storyline: it's not made completely clear why the merfolk have to be rescued -- is it to stop the queen from amassing great wealth, or is it because we may need the merfolk to help us in the campaign, or because we are hono(u)ring an ancient alliance?
(5) Challenges: sticking to just a few focused goals at any time, or risk being swamped. On hard, finishing with over 100 gold.
The mermen allies seemed to work best when staying E, out of range of the recruited nagas, to get to the SE cage and trident, with perhaps one or two sacrificing themselves to draw the main force of the sea orc to the north. It was also crucial to have a balanced force on land and not be overambitious in taking villages before they could be supported. An extra tweak that helped a lot was recruiting and recalling troops in pairs (one fast, one slow), so that the island didn't become a bottleneck; took quite a bit of experience to work this one out, and this is something that may be worthwhile putting into the tutorial.
(6) Fun: 7-9, depending on one's mix of available troops.
(7) Changes: see comments above, mostly dialogue and hints.
-
hellerup
Re: Scenario Review: Bay of Pearls
(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 - It's one of the most difficult ones.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Ok, but I didn't really like the part with the sea orc. Ok, it was meant to be annoying and I found it annoying. It was properbly also meant to be funny, which I didn't find it.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not getting wiped out on the land front. I think this scenario is violently difficult until you really get a hold on the unit rotation priciple and learn to position you units correctly and defend weaker units when the turn end.
This makes the scenario feel hard, but I really think it needs to be hard - if you don't learn these tactics the right way, you will get into problems later in the campaign.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10 - Lot's of variation between the units, a magic weapon, challenging tactics, cool map layout and a real need for intelligent tactics. Excellent!
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I think it's a great scenario, and I wouldn't want to change it.
Medium
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 - It's one of the most difficult ones.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Ok, but I didn't really like the part with the sea orc. Ok, it was meant to be annoying and I found it annoying. It was properbly also meant to be funny, which I didn't find it.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not getting wiped out on the land front. I think this scenario is violently difficult until you really get a hold on the unit rotation priciple and learn to position you units correctly and defend weaker units when the turn end.
This makes the scenario feel hard, but I really think it needs to be hard - if you don't learn these tactics the right way, you will get into problems later in the campaign.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10 - Lot's of variation between the units, a magic weapon, challenging tactics, cool map layout and a real need for intelligent tactics. Excellent!
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I think it's a great scenario, and I wouldn't want to change it.
Re: Scenario Review: Bay of Pearls
1 - E, M (just starting)Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
2 - 6 on E, don't know yet on M
3 - Clear
4 - s'allright
5 - Wee bloody castle makes your core force build-up slow, frustrating and annoying.
6 - 2 or 3. I dread this scenario, its not super hard but annoying.
7 - Bigger Castle. To compensate for this give the player less turns and change the objectives to kill both leaders. Did I mention that this scenario was annoying?
-
Glowing Fish
- Posts: 855
- Joined: October 3rd, 2004, 4:52 am
- Location: Portland, OR
- Contact:
1. Easy
2. 5 I didn't find it a meat grinder, but I definetly had to use lots of tactics, and only really got it when I figured out some strategy.
3. Clear.
4. It was pretty clear. The Bugg bit was funny.
5. The first time I played it, I didn't really understand very well how to use my Mermen. As soon as I realized that I could use them to prevent the land keep from sending its forces North, the game opened up for me.
6. 8 or 9 This is actually one of my favorite scenarios, because it allows a really innovative strategic move: allowing your Mermen, who are hard to hit in the water, to disrupt the Land Orc from sending forces Northward, so that your land army can take the army north of the river slowly.
7. I like this one as it is.
2. 5 I didn't find it a meat grinder, but I definetly had to use lots of tactics, and only really got it when I figured out some strategy.
3. Clear.
4. It was pretty clear. The Bugg bit was funny.
5. The first time I played it, I didn't really understand very well how to use my Mermen. As soon as I realized that I could use them to prevent the land keep from sending its forces North, the game opened up for me.
6. 8 or 9 This is actually one of my favorite scenarios, because it allows a really innovative strategic move: allowing your Mermen, who are hard to hit in the water, to disrupt the Land Orc from sending forces Northward, so that your land army can take the army north of the river slowly.
7. I like this one as it is.
I hope people don't mind that I keep bringing scenario surveys to the front.
I played medium. I didn't think it was too difficult. I thought the objectives were clear, but until reading this thread I didn't realize that meeting different scenario objectives could lead to different campaign paths. I'm a newbie, but I read through the manual and site after the tutorial and before the campaign. The Bugg dialog was cute; I didn't realize he was a "Sea Orc" until checking on his terrain defense before attacking him. If he transformed during the scenario I didn't notice. (Just the idea of a sea orc is amusing to me...I like it.)
The challenge for me was the huge freakin' horde of trolls and the landscape. I think the scenario was quite fun because I had to look again and rethink my strategy.
I like the scenario the way it is, except it would be nice to let the player know if there is a different outcome if both leaders are killed as opposed to killing one and surviving the turn count.
The small castle confused me at first, but then I noticed how defensible my tiny island was. (Trolls don't fight so well neck deep in water; I held them off with enough troops to leave two blank spots on the island for maneuvering.)
I played medium. I didn't think it was too difficult. I thought the objectives were clear, but until reading this thread I didn't realize that meeting different scenario objectives could lead to different campaign paths. I'm a newbie, but I read through the manual and site after the tutorial and before the campaign. The Bugg dialog was cute; I didn't realize he was a "Sea Orc" until checking on his terrain defense before attacking him. If he transformed during the scenario I didn't notice. (Just the idea of a sea orc is amusing to me...I like it.)
The challenge for me was the huge freakin' horde of trolls and the landscape. I think the scenario was quite fun because I had to look again and rethink my strategy.
I like the scenario the way it is, except it would be nice to let the player know if there is a different outcome if both leaders are killed as opposed to killing one and surviving the turn count.
The small castle confused me at first, but then I noticed how defensible my tiny island was. (Trolls don't fight so well neck deep in water; I held them off with enough troops to leave two blank spots on the island for maneuvering.)
-
ZombieEater
- Posts: 13
- Joined: February 1st, 2005, 4:39 am
(1) Medium
(2) 8 the first time around, 5 the second time
(3) Clear
(4) Clear, though finishing off the little water orc was a little confusing - I was waiting for something more than just a comment from my merman.
(5) The first time, the land warlord recruited 3 lvl2 orcs who cut up my forces pretty badly. I do have to say that I'm new to Wesnoth, but it was an unmitigated slaughter!
On sea, I lost badly to the nagas the first time- they have 8-3 vs my Merman's 8-2? No big surprise there!! The second time around the land leader recruited just hordes of lvl1 orc crossbows and troll whelps, who got plowed under by my forces fairly easily. It helped that I won at sea as well, I guess through better placement and use of ZoC and some luck in the rolls. Several Xbows and whelps then waded out into the sea attacking my mermans holding the sea villages.
(6) 6 on the first go around, 8 on the second
(7) A more consistent recruitment strategy of the AI? Did the land orc change accordingly to what I recruited/recalled? I brought out my cavs early the first time around, when he bought his lvl2 bruisers, in the next game I got my fighters and archers first, when he used masses of lvl 1 units.
(2) 8 the first time around, 5 the second time
(3) Clear
(4) Clear, though finishing off the little water orc was a little confusing - I was waiting for something more than just a comment from my merman.
(5) The first time, the land warlord recruited 3 lvl2 orcs who cut up my forces pretty badly. I do have to say that I'm new to Wesnoth, but it was an unmitigated slaughter!
On sea, I lost badly to the nagas the first time- they have 8-3 vs my Merman's 8-2? No big surprise there!! The second time around the land leader recruited just hordes of lvl1 orc crossbows and troll whelps, who got plowed under by my forces fairly easily. It helped that I won at sea as well, I guess through better placement and use of ZoC and some luck in the rolls. Several Xbows and whelps then waded out into the sea attacking my mermans holding the sea villages. (6) 6 on the first go around, 8 on the second
(7) A more consistent recruitment strategy of the AI? Did the land orc change accordingly to what I recruited/recalled? I brought out my cavs early the first time around, when he bought his lvl2 bruisers, in the next game I got my fighters and archers first, when he used masses of lvl 1 units.
It is roaming the depths in eternal hunger, devouring all and everything, far from the light, lost in the shadows, alone, wandering, searching, evermore...
Yes, the enemy definitely recruits based on what you recruit. However I didn't know that even extends to which level units are! That makes sense now that I think about it; I guess I had assumed the bad guy would throw his best at you, but the support could eat him up. Better to keep his support and recruit costs low if his troops are matched to yours.ZombieEater wrote:Did the land orc change accordingly to what I recruited/recalled? I brought out my cavs early the first time around, when he bought his lvl2 bruisers, in the next game I got my fighters and archers first, when he used masses of lvl 1 units.
The sea castle seems to run out of money fast and doesn't send much after the first wave, at least the couple of times I played it. I suppose that could change if you let his bats get some northern (well now southern in 0.8.9) villages.
Re: Scenario Review: Bay of Pearls
Yeah, I also don't like it.turin wrote: Like EP... i didn't really get it. Why the heck are they at the bay of pearls, not getting the scepter or something? I think the scenarios from BoP to SoE are too 'run around saving everyone' and not 'fufill a quest'. (Oh! There are captured mermen, lets save them! Hey! Elensefar is under attack! Lets save them!)
In BoP and SoE Konrad is complete naive. He is freeing mermens from
exploitation and saving trade city with presumably healthy merchants from orcs
and what is he getting? Nothing.
What about capturing some pearls prepared for sending to Asheviere in BoP and treasures
robbed in SoE? Of course part should be returned to their respective owners.
There could be also time limit in both scenarios:
If we will win fast we can capture some money before they send it to Weldyn. It
will help us live through the winter.
Re: Scenario Review: Bay of Pearls
Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on? Normal
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 5
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? 7
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? 2 -
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 3 - Water battle is frustrating
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
There's a problem with the dialog talking about the location of merman prisoners. It refers to them being to the Southeast. That is wrong with the new map. It should read "to the Northwest".
Ability to recruit mermen.