Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

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Stopsignal
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by Stopsignal »

The_Gnat wrote: Yeah sure :D the only thing is i don't know what your images are called (like it might be deep-one1 or bog-mag-idle-1 or anything else) and it matters what the name is so if you could upload the images as a archive (i recommend 7zip) or if you could tell me what the different images are called are i would be happy to create it for you!

EDIT: just noticed that you said you could give me a zip with the images, that would be great!

EDIT 2: also what would you like it to be called (bog man? fish man?) and what would you like its description to be, and its level? :D
Sorry for taking so long! I was continuing with the portrait!
Call it Deep One, please! Level 1 if possible. I might do stronger ones later, but for now i need the base unit, hahaha

Here is the description!
Spoiler:
Straight from The Shadow Over Innsmouth, but with a few changes to make it be more description-y.

Here the zip!
http://www.mediafire.com/file/6d5623380 ... eepone.zip

Also, please make it go on deep water! It would be a neat touch, perfect for its lore.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

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The_Gnat
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by The_Gnat »

Cool, i will create that for you! 8) The only thing i was thinking is that this units sprite is a little large for a level 1, see below it is compared to a level 1 spearman and elvish archer:

Archer
Image

Spearman
Image

Deepone (a bit too large for level 1)
Image

The reason i say this is because i was thinking this might be better for a level 2 unit. If you don't think so that is not any problem though! :D
Creator of: The Reign of The Lords Era,The Gnats Franken Dungeon
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Stopsignal
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by Stopsignal »

Well, then you convinced me! I'll make an smaller one later. Maybe a person becoming a deep one, like in the story. Oh, that would be so awesome. And cultists and things! I need a whole lovecraftian faction. But first, gotta finish my guy the fish man!
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The_Gnat
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by The_Gnat »

Great! Here is the .cfg file it expects the units images to be stored in core/images/units/deepone/ and under there it needs the folders you included in the archive! (attack3, idle2,defend1,die1) :D and it expects the portrait to be core/images/portraits/deepone/deepone.png

Since you seem interested in making a faction of deep ones (which would be awesome :mrgreen: ) if you want i can help you make a add-on faction to run them from! (but it would probably be a good idea to make a new thread since this is the art workshop, if you want)
Attachments
Deep_One.cfg
Deep one unit file
(4.24 KiB) Downloaded 161 times
Creator of: The Reign of The Lords Era,The Gnats Franken Dungeon
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Stopsignal
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by Stopsignal »

Man, i owe you so much! THIS IS GREAT.

I really did want to show an image of it ingame, but i had no idea how to actually try it there, or add it in the scenario editor (the add units button is greyed out).
I guess when i finish all the units, i can add it as a faction and try it indeed!

Hey, thanks, really. It means a lot! d:
I'll definetly continue this! We need to finish what we started!

If anyone wants the files, just ask, and i'll give them to you!
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

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The_Gnat
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by The_Gnat »

Thanks, I'd be happy to create some more units cfg files for you when you make them! :D and like i said before if you want to play this unit ingame i can show you a pretty easy way to set it up.

EDIT: here's a screenshot of the deepone in game! :D
deepone.png
deepone.png (384.44 KiB) Viewed 2469 times
Creator of: The Reign of The Lords Era,The Gnats Franken Dungeon
Co-designer of the (not-wesnoth) space combat video game Planet Bounce.

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Stopsignal
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by Stopsignal »

Please! I already set it up, but can't get it to work with the debug command to create units!
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The_Gnat
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by The_Gnat »

Stopsignal wrote:Please! I already set it up, but can't get it to work with the debug command to create units!
Hi Stopsignal, sorry it took me sooooo long to respond. Here is a link to a new thread i have created, in it is steps to creating an era. I have also attached a archive which includes a already set up era that loads your unit :D I think though that you should read through the steps, which is how i created it, so that you understand how to make a add-on :D

Hopefully it makes sense! Basically this add-on adds another era option under the normal options which is the default era with a option at the start to allow you to be the 'deepones' - you probably know this already but here is where your era would appear:
Spoiler:
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Wussel
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by Wussel »

Everything definetely ready to go!

In general terms a few ideas:

I would put 2 or 3 different (dark) colors in the open mouth (The very big open mouth frame).
The belly button is really wiggling a bit exotic. The belly itself looks fine to me.
The shadow should move a bit to the front too.
The frames could be far less. Maybe 4 to 6 for attack and only 2 frames for defend.
The size is fine for me. If you going for levels you could have a skinnier level 1.

I would have them go on deep water and give them submerge with a good move type for water. Submerge is only in deep water. Adding shallow water submerge might be a bit much. But again we have rangers in forrests.

This would make them surprise attackers on watermaps. Any idea if snow is benefiting them on land?

all waters,swamp cost 1
flat, sand, dirt, cave cost 2
hills, forrest cost 3
mountains cost 4

Moves 5 (quick available)

What is the attack? Biting? Water spitting?

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johndh
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by johndh »

Stopsignal wrote:with prodigious bulging eyes that never close
You can clearly see its eyes closing in the animations. ;) You could change the description to match, but I wonder if keeping the eyes open in the animations would help make it feel more creepy (which is always a good thing when dealing with Lovecraft).

As far as a unit line is concerned, it's been a while since I've read any Lovecraft, but I seem to remember the Deep Ones gradually transformed from regular-looking humans, so it seems like a line that starts out more human and gets more fishy as it increases in power would make sense, if you wanted to go that route.
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.

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The_Gnat
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by The_Gnat »

Wussel wrote: I would have them go on deep water and give them submerge with a good move type for water. Submerge is only in deep water. Adding shallow water submerge might be a bit much. But again we have rangers in forrests.
This would make them surprise attackers on watermaps. Any idea if snow is benefiting them on land?
all waters,swamp cost 1
flat, sand, dirt, cave cost 2
hills, forrest cost 3
mountains cost 4

Moves 5 (quick available)

What is the attack? Biting? Water spitting?
Hi wussel here is an link to an addon I made to load deepones (currently only the one) if you download it tell me what you think. Currently I have made him hide in all water hexes.
Creator of: The Reign of The Lords Era,The Gnats Franken Dungeon
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Wussel
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by Wussel »

Looked at the era:

That pierce attack is a pain against undead. Maybe blade?

Maybe a tiny range attack?

Maybe deep water and reef both at 60%?

Why are they so fast on sand? Why so good sand defence compared to flat?

Maybe chaotic?

Maybe traits? Strong, resilient, healty, fearless (if chaotic), quick, intelligent (if more level)

Maybe the negative traits of the goblins? (dim, slow, weak) Since you are a programmer: Give 3 traits but dim/intelligent, quick/slow, weak/strong should cancel each other to become a 1 trait unit.

What about caves? I would asume they are good in caves/underground?

Maybe some water regeneration?

Edit: played the era on a map. The unit is interesting to play. With this values it is not overpowered against level 1. Could be a level 1 actually. Something like a (water) orcish warrior/grunt. Was that the intention?
Last edited by Wussel on November 20th, 2016, 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Stopsignal
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by Stopsignal »

Holy spoops, i'm about to try it now, and i'll tell you later how it looks! I'm really excited, though i figured i should answer some stuff first.
And man, you even made a tutorial fo me. You are really great, just wanted to tell you. :D

______________________________
@Wussel

In general terms a few ideas:

I would put 2 or 3 different (dark) colors in the open mouth (The very big open mouth frame). I'll try! When i tested how it could look i kind of didn't like the outcome, that's why i did not change it. But you are true, i do need to do it, i just have to find some colors that loog good in it.

The belly button is really wiggling a bit exotic. The belly itself looks fine to me. Yep, specially the attack one, where it cuts a bit. I have to fix that one.

The shadow should move a bit to the front too. In what animation, exactly? Or in all of them?

The frames could be far less. Maybe 4 to 6 for attack and only 2 frames for defend. I did see some animations in the game with fluid movements, but in any case it shouldn't be a problem, it's easier to take away than to add.

The size is fine for me. If you going for levels you could have a skinnier level 1. The folk that are turning into fish are definetly my next goal!

I would have them go on deep water and give them submerge with a good move type for water. Submerge is only in deep water. Adding shallow water submerge might be a bit much. But again we have rangers in forrests. In the books, the idea is that they are /really/ good on water, but on earth they have to rely on numbers, as they are very impeded. And if they want to be on earth, they most probably have to be at night, otherwise they will be very weak.

This would make them surprise attackers on watermaps. Any idea if snow is benefiting them on land? Some stories i think are on snow, but i haven't read one yet that mentions it, so i can't really say.

all waters,swamp cost 1
flat, sand, dirt, cave cost 2
hills, forrest cost 3
mountains cost 4

Moves 5 (quick available)

What is the attack? Biting? Water spitting? Biting, i guess? They are quite humanoid though, but they would totally bite.

______________________________________
@Johndh

You can clearly see its eyes closing in the animations. ;) You could change the description to match, but I wonder if keeping the eyes open in the animations would help make it feel more creepy (which is always a good thing when dealing with Lovecraft). I TOTALLY GOT CARRIED AWAY THERE. Didn't realize! I was just animating and it seemed so natural. but you are right! Gotta fix. It's a very easy one luckily.

As far as a unit line is concerned, it's been a while since I've read any Lovecraft, but I seem to remember the Deep Ones gradually transformed from regular-looking humans, so it seems like a line that starts out more human and gets more fishy as it increases in power would make sense, if you wanted to go that route. That's my idea! They will have a really weird evolving line however, as the units would start on land but would gradually need to move to the water.

I also plan to make shoggoths, as a tanky but not quite goot at attacking enemy, and cultists, which could be a recolor of something, that would be the range.



_________________________________
@Wussel

Looked at the era:

That pierce attack is a pain against undead. Maybe blade? We really need to think what its counters should be, but for now i got no ideas that would be fun. If anyone thinks of something, say!

Maybe a tiny range attack? Maybe some kind of "sanity attack" just by looking at them?

Maybe deep water and reef both at 60%? I have to try yet to see how overpowered/underpowered it is, so no comment for now.

Why are they so fast on sand? Why so good sand defence compared to flat? I guess it's the beach theme. Might have to change that, but for now i'm really grateful i have the unit in the first place!

Maybe chaotic? Indeed!

Maybe traits? Strong, resilient, healty, fearless (if chaotic), quick, intelligent (if more level) They are indeed all that, except intelligent and quick. They are mostly fish, after all.

Maybe the negative traits of the goblins? (dim, slow, weak) Since you are a programmer: Give 3 traits but dim/intelligent, quick/slow, weak/strong should cancel each other to become a 1 trait unit. Hmm, i guess this one is for Gnat so i'll leave it! Didn't understand much!

What about caves? I would asume they are good in caves/underground? If its dark and wet, i guess it could be! As long as it's not normal ground and lit.

Maybe some water regeneration? It could certainly be awesome and would go with the playstyle of the thing perfectly, but wouldn't it be too powerful? Gotta try it first to say.

Now i'll try this bad boys, back soon!
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

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The_Gnat
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by The_Gnat »

@Stopsignal - thank you, I'd love to hear more feedback! :D
Wussel wrote: That pierce attack is a pain against undead. Maybe blade?
Maybe a tiny range attack?
Maybe deep water and reef both at 60%?
Why are they so fast on sand? Why so good sand defence compared to flat?
Maybe chaotic?
Maybe traits? Strong, resilient, healty, fearless (if chaotic), quick, intelligent (if more level)
Maybe the negative traits of the goblins? (dim, slow, weak) Since you are a programmer: Give 3 traits but dim/intelligent, quick/slow, weak/strong should cancel each other to become a 1 trait unit.
What about caves? I would asume they are good in caves/underground?
Maybe some water regeneration?
Stopsignal has answered some of these already, glad you like it :D and heres what I think:
-pierce - it does have a bite so any other type would be inappropriate but maybe a ranged attack of a different type would help, also @Stopsignal if you wants to make another attack animation of a body slam or something I can add another attack!
-ranged attack - like Stopsignal suggested I will adda range attack, @Stopsignal if you could make a short animation for this that would be great
-defense on reefs and deep water - will change
-sand - will change
-chaotic - will change
-traits - hmm... personally I dont think having negative traits is that good @Stopsignal what do you think, but I will change it so it has some traits!
-caves - will change
-water regeneration - good idea but not 8hp, would 4 hit point regeneration on deep water be good?

Also as you saw it submerges on all water tiles, is this too good? And it currently cant move onto mountain s should it?
Creator of: The Reign of The Lords Era,The Gnats Franken Dungeon
Co-designer of the (not-wesnoth) space combat video game Planet Bounce.

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Stopsignal
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Re: Lovecraft's Deep Ones (New here)

Post by Stopsignal »

After playing with them, they do change gameplay quite nicely, which is awesome. I was taking mostly an stealthy route. Sadly i figured this way of playing much later and the game wrecked me, hahahaha.

Maybe really small regeneration would be nice, to encourage water play and a more tactic approach. The unit isn't really op for me, i don't know what you think guys. They are seriously bad on land and have almost no movement on it, but they are urged to move because most enemies and buildings are on land after all. So you need to hug that water and do some kind of small hit and run attacks, which goes perfect with it.

I don't know how much negative traits affect the unit, if it's a lot or just debuffs them a bit and makes it more balanced. I'll leave that one for your thinking! Though maybe, if we will make them be good at night, some negative traits could be better to balance it.

I do like the "hide on all water tiles" thing. It changes how you play quite a bunch. But i'm quite bad at the game, so we will need some comments from good players to see how it actually performs.

Man, this is so exciting. I can't wait to finish all about this unit to go full with the cultists and weird townfolk.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

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