Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

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DbIHbIC
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by DbIHbIC » August 26th, 2016, 11:40 pm

Very hard 6 scenary on any difficulty. On easy i have start gold 138 vs 2x250=500 for enemy. 500/138=3.6

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beetlenaut
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by beetlenaut » August 27th, 2016, 12:13 am

Yeah, it's one of the hardest scenarios, and you need more gold than that. You will have to replay the previous scenario concentrating on finishing faster or taking more villages.

This is an expert-level campaign, and even the easiest level is not very easy. I've beaten it on nightmare though, so I know it can be done.
Campaigns: Dead Water,
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide

lostintime
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by lostintime » July 2nd, 2017, 10:49 pm

I enjoyed playing this challenging campaign. I noticed a few minor issues that I thought I'd mention. I played version 1.1.1c of The Founding of Borstep in Battle for Wesnoth version 1.10.7.

At the end of Guarded Door if Krag-Ubor reaches the door before the enemy leaders have been killed gold carry over is old style 80% instead of the new style 40% without early finish bonus that I was expecting.

In Dwarf City there is a Giant Rat trapped outside the cave wall at position 8,2.

I suspect the other issue I noticed is a bug in Battle for Wesnoth version 1.10.7, when viewing the Status Table the leader column shows the names of the various leaders but when you click on 'More >' the leader column shows the ids of the leaders. This looks a bit odd in scenarios such as Fort Narig where Dol-Puwen's id is Leader_1.

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beetlenaut
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by beetlenaut » July 3rd, 2017, 12:50 pm

lostintime wrote: I played version 1.1.1c of The Founding of Borstep in Battle for Wesnoth version 1.10.7.
Well, that's part of your problem. Your version of Wesnoth hasn't even been maintained for three years, and neither has this campaign. We are on BfW version 1.12.6, and the beta for 1.14 is out now too. TFoB is on version 1.1.3a.
lostintime wrote:At the end of Guarded Door if Krag-Ubor reaches the door before the enemy leaders have been killed gold carry over is old style 80% instead of the new style 40% without early finish bonus that I was expecting.
You aren't supposed to get any finish bonus or carryover. (It's in the objectives.) The fact that you get 80% was a mistake. It's been fixed, but not for Wesnoth 1.10. I don't have that any more, so I can't test it. I'm not going to download it either just for this.
lostintime wrote:I suspect the other issue I noticed is a bug in Battle for Wesnoth version 1.10.7
Yes, that was a bug.
Campaigns: Dead Water,
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide

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beetlenaut
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by beetlenaut » April 8th, 2018, 8:28 am

Now on the 1.14 server!

Some of the code was updated, so there may be minor bugs. Let me know if you find one.
Campaigns: Dead Water,
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide

krekling
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by krekling » July 11th, 2018, 3:01 pm

After playing through beetlenaut's excellent Secrets of the Ancients, I had to check this out. In all I found it to be an enjoyable campaign, nicely written with a very good and humorous narrative (even more in-game dialogue would not hurt!), so thanks, beetlenaut!

Some scenario specific comments follow.

The New Leader, Thieves, and Life and Undeath were very fun and challenging. All of them contain interesting original gameplay mechanisms. If the rest of the campaign would hold the high level of originality that these three do, I think the campaign would be well above average mainline quality.

The Law and Fort Narig were more straight forward brute force (kill 'em all). Could be more original to make them interesting.

The Law was on the easy side; I finished it 25 turns early.

Trolls was by far the most difficult scenario, but it was fun too. I had trouble keeping the ghosts alive. After five tries I found the winning formula at last, by going all in on grunts and sending in the ghosts afterwards for cleanup.

Underground Lake and Dwarf City were a bit tedious (mostly hack'n'slash). Accelerating AI movement on Dwarf City helped a bit, because there are a lot of AI units.

Dragon's Stair was okay for a last scenario. Easy given that you have enough high level units.

Lastly some possible bugs:
- When ordering campaigns by date, it is placed after Under the Burning Suns. Is that right?
- Scenario number seven is named "Underground_Lake".
- Don't know whether it's the campaign's fault, but on "Dragon's Stair", the Orcish Grunt and Orcish Assassin lines lost their attack animations.
- Should "Dragon's Stair" mention that it's the last scenario?

Wesnoth version: 1.14.3
Campaign version: 1.1.4
Difficulty: Grunt/Normal

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beetlenaut
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by beetlenaut » July 12th, 2018, 6:04 am

Thanks for your comments. I'm glad you liked it. This is an old campaign, which is why there is no "last scenario" note or dates for chronological ordering. I would like to have some more unusual mechanics for later scenarios, but I ran out of ideas. Feel free to make specific suggestions. It's very hard for me to balance Normal difficulty, so I appreciate the comments about that. I'm probably going to be too busy to work on it for the foreseeable future, but I'll get around to making changes at some point.
Campaigns: Dead Water,
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide

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Sur_191
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by Sur_191 » September 8th, 2018, 8:36 pm

Very good campaign, I hope that it will be mainlined one day.

By the way, would you mind, if I would use spooks in my campaign?

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beetlenaut
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by beetlenaut » September 8th, 2018, 8:46 pm

Thanks!
Sur_191 wrote:
September 8th, 2018, 8:36 pm
By the way, would you mind, if I would use spooks in my campaign?
No, of course not.
Campaigns: Dead Water,
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide

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Sur_191
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by Sur_191 » September 8th, 2018, 8:51 pm

beetlenaut wrote:
September 8th, 2018, 8:46 pm
No, of course not.
Thank you!

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josteph
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by josteph » December 13th, 2018, 10:47 am

Just finished S1. It was fun, but I found a couple of bugs.

First, S1 produces corrupt replays. To reproduce:

1. wesnoth --userdata-dir foo
2. Install TFoB 1.1.5
3. Start the campaign
4. Skip your first two turns
5. Load TFoB-Auto-Save3.gz with the "Show replay" checkbox selected
6. error replay: unfound location for source of movement: 20,3 -> 14,5

Secondly, on turn 4 I tried to recruit an Archer in planning mode and got an assertion as soon as the Recruit dialog closed:

Code: Select all

error engine: Trying to add  - Orcish Archer-9223372036854775809 - 9223372036854775809(5,17) over Grigdish - Orcish Assassin-9223372036854775809 - 9223372036854775809 (10,4).
warning unit: assigning new id to clone of generic unit Orcish Archer-9223372036854775809
error engine: The new unit was assigned underlying_id=9223372036854775810 to prevent duplicate id conflicts.
warning unit: assigning new id to clone of generic unit Orcish Archer-9223372036854775810
wesnoth: src/whiteboard/recruit.cpp:150: virtual void wb::recruit::apply_temp_modifier(unit_map &): Assertion `temp_unit_->underlying_id() == old_id' failed.
When I replay the preceding save, I get further errors:

Code: Select all

error replay: unfound location for source of movement: 20,3 -> 14,5
error replay: unfound location for source of movement: 20,4 -> 14,4
error replay: unfound location for source of movement: 14,4 -> 8,4
error replay: unfound location for source of movement: 14,5 -> 10,4
error replay: unfound location for source of movement: 10,4 -> 8,8
error replay: unfound location for source of attack
which lead me to think these two issues (unreplayability and assertion) are related. The unit Grigdish from the assertion error must have been recruited on 20,3, moved to 14,5 and to 10,4 - the former location is in the whiteboard log and the latter is in the assertion log.

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beetlenaut
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by beetlenaut » December 13th, 2018, 11:38 pm

josteph wrote:
December 13th, 2018, 10:47 am
I found a couple of bugs.
I can't reproduce either issue in 1.14.5 or 1.14.4. I tried reinstalling TFoB from the server too, and everything seems to work fine.
Campaigns: Dead Water,
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide

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josteph
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by josteph » December 14th, 2018, 11:16 am

Thanks for looking into it. I can reproduce the first issue with with a clean userdata-dir, with both 1.14.5 and latest 1.14. What else can I do to debug this?

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beetlenaut
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by beetlenaut » December 14th, 2018, 5:45 pm

josteph wrote:
December 14th, 2018, 11:16 am
What else can I do to debug this?
I guess...remove events from the scenario until replays work? The "start" and "enemies defeated" events are really long and probably not involved, so I would start with those. (If you want to refactor the WML while you're there, be my guest! :whistle: ) Next, there is an "engineer" orc who makes a bridge on turn 3 or 4 for the enemy orcs on the affected hexes to use. Try taking out that event too, and remove the shroud so you can see what's happening on those hexes.

I have no idea how to find out why the engine would be trying to reuse a unit ID when you use the whiteboard. I doubt my code could even be involved though. Are you sure that doesn't happen with other campaigns?
Campaigns: Dead Water,
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide

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josteph
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Re: Orcish Campaign: The Founding of Borstep

Post by josteph » December 14th, 2018, 6:18 pm

beetlenaut wrote:
December 14th, 2018, 5:45 pm
I guess...remove events from the scenario until replays work? The "start" and "enemies defeated" events are really long and probably not involved, so I would start with those. (If you want to refactor the WML while you're there, be my guest! :whistle: ) Next, there is an "engineer" orc who makes a bridge on turn 3 or 4 for the enemy orcs on the affected hexes to use. Try taking out that event too, and remove the shroud so you can see what's happening on those hexes.
Thanks, I see the problem now. The scenario places two Orcish Assassins in an ai turn event, which is documented as:
This event can break replays if it is used improperly. The ai turn event does not fire during replays...
Changing the event from name=ai turn to name="side turn" side=3 fixes the bug.
beetlenaut wrote:
December 14th, 2018, 5:45 pm
I have no idea how to find out why the engine would be trying to reuse a unit ID when you use the whiteboard. I doubt my code could even be involved though. Are you sure that doesn't happen with other campaigns?
I've never seen it with other campaigns, and like I said before, the error log just before the assertion mentions the very same orc that was involved in the broken replay. I can reproduce it reliably with the attached savegame by recruiting an Archer to 5,17 in planning mode, but I was hoping to have a more minimal example than that.
Attachments
TFoB-New_Leader_Turn_4-checkpoint.gz
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