Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Prophet
10
16%
Reaper
5
8%
Scythemaster
4
6%
Shadowalker
3
5%
Shadow Prince
7
11%
Siege Troll
3
5%
Sky Goblin
1
2%
Snow Hunter
7
11%
Soul Shooter
2
3%
Swordmaster
12
19%
Troll Boulderlobber
0
No votes
Warlock
5
8%
Werewolf Rider
2
3%
Zombie Rider
1
2%
 
Total votes: 62

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Already in the 3rd turn? That's bad... I'll check it out.
OdinOverland
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by OdinOverland »

Dugi wrote:Already in the 3rd turn? That's bad... I'll check it out.
Is this regarding the Evil/Dark Lethalia in 'The Tunnels of Cruelty' in Ch. 9? She died by turn 3 for me too. I restarted the level and reached her but now she only attacks until she is killed or dies defending herself. After that the dialogue about letting her die continues.

***Update***
Evil/Dark Lethalia is out of her recruiting zone, attacking and defending. When one of our team reaches her throne then the friendly, team-up conversation begins. Afterward she is now on the player's red team.
Delicius169
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

The problem with multiplayer scenario The hordes of... was since first round.
I tried it online with my friend, and then just by myself. Both times, it was slowly.
I just find out, that after killing someone with parry attack (with parry strike, not with normal strike), I gained no experience points for killing unit.
Also I am starting to thinking, that whirlwind attack is too OP, and also I would like to suggest to give to Elder mage cone, or explosive. I think he should be stronger in magic, than silver mage.
Whiskeyjack
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Whiskeyjack »

Scenario "Hells Ford" in chapter 9:

The dialogue when discovering Lilith:

Ephraim: [...] What matters is that...
Lethalia: ... is that have found you finally. [...]
-> is that we have found you finally.

Liliths trait "enthralling" does not work (if I understand it correctly). I can attack her with every unit I want to. ("temptation" on the other hand works just fine.)

Also I have the curious case that two of my Faerie Incarnations are able to wield staves and two aren´t.

What are "devastating strikes"? I did not find a description anywhere and just assumed it would be something like doubled damage, but I never watched the fights to see if that was true.
Also I am starting to thinking, that whirlwind attack is too OP, and also I would like to suggest to give to Elder mage cone, or explosive. I think he should be stronger in magic, than silver mage.
I always wondered why the Elder mage does not have an aoe on his fireball but I circumvented that with Koshei's Journal. But even without it he is far stronger than the Silver Mage who´s spells are quite weak. The Silver Mages strength is absorb + high basic magic resistances + teleport, not his fighting power.
Under blood-red skies, an old man sits
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
Delicius169
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

Liliths trait "enthralling" does not work (if I understand it correctly). I can attack her with every unit I want to. ("temptation" on the other hand works just fine.)
I think that enthralling and temptation is the same. And even if not, both of them work fine in my game.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

OdinOverland wrote:Evil/Dark Lethalia is out of her recruiting zone, attacking and defending. When one of our team reaches her throne then the friendly, team-up conversation begins. Afterward she is now on the player's red team.
I tested it right now, she wasn't leaving it, but my save file could have been a bit outdated. Do you have a save file where she does that?
Delicius169 wrote:The problem with multiplayer scenario The hordes of... was since first round.
I didn't have time to try that out yet, sorry.
Delicius169 wrote:Also I am starting to thinking, that whirlwind attack is too OP
He does not get exp for the additional targets as a penalty.
Whiskeyjack wrote:The dialogue when discovering Lilith:
Fixed.
Whiskeyjack wrote:Liliths trait "enthralling" does not work (if I understand it correctly). I can attack her with every unit I want to. ("temptation" on the other hand works just fine.)
Enthralling is a trait that adds the temptation ability, are you sure about what you're saying? If that's in the Foul Pits area, you could have made a mistake because her traits change every time she returns to fight you.
Whiskeyjack wrote:What are "devastating strikes"? I did not find a description anywhere and just assumed it would be something like doubled damage, but I never watched the fights to see if that was true.
I am not sure if I ever wrote it somewhere, but if you deal a devastating strike to an enemy, it reduces his hitpoints by 20% of his current hitpoints. So if the enemy has high resistances and/or a lot of hitpoints, you will be able to grievously damage him without much effort (but its effect weakens when the enemy's hp gets low, 20% of 400 hp is more than 20% of 40 hp). It's good to defeat bosses.
Whiskeyjack wrote:I always wondered why the Elder mage does not have an aoe on his fireball but I circumvented that with Koshei's Journal. But even without it he is far stronger than the Silver Mage who´s spells are quite weak. The Silver Mages strength is absorb + high basic magic resistances + teleport, not his fighting power.
I agree with that, it was what I wanted, but I also tend to agree with Delicius' idea to give the Elder Mage something to deal damage to multiple targets (at the cost of an adequate damage reduction).
Whiskeyjack
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Whiskeyjack »

Enthralling is a trait that adds the temptation ability, are you sure about what you're saying? If that's in the Foul Pits area, you could have made a mistake because her traits change every time she returns to fight you.
Ah, then I misunderstood it. I thought enthralling would disable all male units to attack Lilith (tooltip reads: "makes opponents of opposite gender unable to attack"). This was my first encounter with her (Doom Ford).

At the end of this scenario, when going to Infernal Narrows:

Ephraim: If can be assembled, it has been already assembled and [...]
-> If it can be assembled [...]
Under blood-red skies, an old man sits
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
Delicius169
Posts: 179
Joined: February 16th, 2015, 5:02 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

The OP on whirlwind attack is, that enemy cannot hit you back, not that you can hit severe enemies. For example killing Abandon- it was quiete good to use sword Trickery with efraims whirlwind attack on him. If he could defend himself, it would not be so easy.
dabber
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

I downloaded the latest version for the first time in a month+ and found one bug - the amla for resist_cold has max_times=2, while all the other resists_xxx have max_times=4

I also again suggest that human dragon rider have movement type changed to drakefly instead of mounted. There was no opposition to that previously, and it simply makes more sense.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Whiskeyjack wrote:At the end of this scenario, when going to Infernal Narrows:
Fixed.
Delicius169 wrote:The OP on whirlwind attack is, that enemy cannot hit you back, not that you can hit severe enemies.
That is true. I can remove that effect, but in that case you would just attack an enemy next to Abaddon to take retaliation from him instead of Abaddon. Whirlwind's damage is inferior, but there are still some weapon specials that will make you benefit even from lower damage. I might reduce its attack count if you want.
dabber wrote:I downloaded the latest version for the first time in a month+ and found one bug - the amla for resist_cold has max_times=2, while all the other resists_xxx have max_times=4
That was intentional.
dabber wrote:I also again suggest that human dragon rider have movement type changed to drakefly instead of mounted.
I remember quite clearly that his movement type was mounted, but the resistances are strongly customised to be a combination of mounted and drakefly. I remember faintly that I made some changes his properties to address that suggestion. Check out the details now and tell if you disagree with some particular number.

EDIT:
@Delicius169
I have checked what was going on in that save file of yours (I was lazy to begin with it because it looked like a very hard problem). I have turned off the shroud and fog using debug mode and I saw that there was no AI bottleneck. There was just a lot of units under the shroud that were advancing. The move of every unit took just a half of a second, but their sheer quantity made it seem like if there was something wicked going on (with the default AI, the enemy turn could take even 30 minutes, but with the edited AI, it's not so bad).
In short, there's just a lot of things happening under the shroud, but it grows linearly with the quantity of units, so it should not reach insane periods of time.

EDIT #2:
I have found the cause of that advancement bug. It has been there for like two years. Fixed it.
I also made the black souls more dangerous.
Last edited by Dugi on March 16th, 2015, 10:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
Delicius169
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Delicius169 »

OK, thanks :-) Next weekend I will try itagain. :-)
dabber
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

I made it to the end! I've definitely spent more time on LotI than the rest of Wesnoth, and probably more time on LotI than any computer game in 5+ years. Thank you Dugi.

As previous discussion, Black Souls are way way too easy. I also think the last scenario needs about double the number of turns and about triple the number of enemies (even with harder black souls). You should be swamped by them so much that you need to fill the defending castle with elite troops and are units with 10+ AMLAs get overwhelmed and killed. I would make the portals bring in 7 guys at a time, not just 1. And there needs to be a portal in the SW.

I also think the crafted item Intoxicator is underpriced. Slow is such a powerful ability. I would throw a few diamonds and an emerald into its cost, if not more.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@dabber
Glad to read you liked it that much!

Just earlier today, in my not yet uploaded version, I have added a new weapon special to the black souls. It's called lethargy. Any hit from them (offensive or defensive) reduces the opponent's damage by 2 (all attacks affected). This effect stacks with itself and builds up, but its effect is halved every turn. Most units attacked by a larger group of black souls will lose all damage quickly (low damage makes the suck effect very ineffective), will be unable to retaliate and will have to be put out of combat for a while.

If you want to see if they are strong enough, the change for that scenario is in these files:
black_soul_upgrade.zip
I think that you can figure out what files you have to replace
(31.51 KiB) Downloaded 75 times
Okay, increased the price of Intoxicator. Now the cost is one emerald, one ruby, two diamonds, one pearl, three opals and one obsidian.
dabber
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

How do we get a Duke? I have one from early in chapter 6, but sergeant/lieutenant is not on the recruit list, and I cannot figure out where/how I picked him up.
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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

In part I, you can make one from Mario. In part II, you get some soldiers into your group and most likely you'll get also some Sergeants.
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