Legend of the Invincibles

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Which of these units you find worth advancing and gearing heavily? Unpopular ones will be reworked.

Elvish Nightprowler
18
14%
Elvish Overlord
9
7%
Elvish Seer
19
15%
Elvish Warlord
5
4%
Exterminator
15
12%
Forester
4
3%
Goblin Ravager
0
No votes
Goblin Warbanner
0
No votes
Grim Knight
0
No votes
Faerie Incarnation
18
14%
Infernal Knight
5
4%
Lich King
8
6%
Lunatic Knight
10
8%
Monstrosity
0
No votes
Orcish Nightblade
0
No votes
Orcish Strafer
4
3%
Pilum Master
4
3%
Orcish Warmonger
4
3%
Phantom
3
2%
Predator
3
2%
 
Total votes: 129

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Fixed. Thanks for reporting.

Cashcam24
Posts: 43
Joined: February 23rd, 2014, 5:56 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Cashcam24 »

In the scenario the last enemy I've been wondering how the evil lethalia gets so powerful

wuxiangjinxing
Posts: 53
Joined: December 23rd, 2008, 5:01 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by wuxiangjinxing »

1.12 is released and there are a lot of "deprecated description" notes when playing this campaign.

Drakilian
Posts: 48
Joined: March 18th, 2013, 8:31 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Drakilian »

dabber wrote:I don't see a problem with improving the movement of Dragon Rider to that of Fire Dragon. He obliterates Orcs, even more than most things obliterate orcs, but so far he is a bit unimpressive against enemies he cannot drain.

General comment. I think there are no upgrades or weapons that grant the weapon special magical (hit 70%). Focus exists, but only on an archer or bow. Various things can get marksman, including the crafted weapon, and ranged marksman exists via leadership. I presume this is a design balance thing, that you believe negating defense is too powerful? I really notice it with the Shadow Prince, whose shockwave attack is fun, but not for dealing damage. But I also notice it with stuff like the Skeleton Dragon and Dragon Rider, where I feel if I could just get them to hit, especially on defense, they'd be more effective.
You can't be serious! Dragon rider is, save for perhaps the Duke and Faerie incarnation, the most useful/powerful unit you can get! They have massive movement (they're always ahead of the rest of my army at least), if you give them a decent spear then with their naturally huge resistances you can have them charging many times for massive damage (I have a dragon rider that's relatively new with a lightbringer trident, it charges 6 times and deals 82 damage with each charge, if you add a duke to that you have 196, 6 attacks - screw the bites, get drain at the most in case of an emergency and then invest in charging, at that point even without the charge special they're killing enemies in retaliation with ease). They have an awesome ranged attack for a melee focused unit that gets even stronger with only two advancements (which are easy to get because, for some reason, the dragon rider draws ALL the aggro, from everything, everywhere).

Which reminds me, i've been meaning to ask - why does the Faerie incarnation's healing outclass every single other healer's healing by so much? They start with 16 and their advancements grant them double with each level you take in it, which feels absurdly high (not that i'm complaining, they heal units that would otherwise be made useless by some scenarios within one or two rounds).

Unrelated note:

I recently gave a Scythemaster Xuanquang's Soul Harvest, and I get the feeling kamikaze sprint is bugged as all hell? It looks awesome, mind you, but I put a duke next to my scythemaster and had him whirlwind a corrupted elf scout, he appeared on the other side of the scout and the scout was still alive despite being at -141 health.

I tried other attacks (without whirlwind and without the duke) and the result was the same, scythemaster appeared on the other side after hitting, enemy remained alive and with negative health.

The scout died the next time anything attacked it, but the scythe master got exactly no exp from it. Surprisingly enough, this didn't apply to the enemy behind the corrupted elvish scout - a blood bat - which died from the other effect of the kamikaze sprint (it took half of the initial damage).

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naikon
Posts: 13
Joined: July 19th, 2014, 12:21 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by naikon »

I started playing this campaign again after few months. I used to play LOTI v 3.1.2 on wesnoth 1.11.13. So, are savegames of that version compatible with latest version of this mod(i.e. 3.1.6) and upto which version of wesnoth?

dabber
Posts: 386
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Drakilian wrote:
dabber wrote:I don't see a problem with improving the movement of Dragon Rider to that of Fire Dragon. He obliterates Orcs, even more than most things obliterate orcs, but so far he is a bit unimpressive against enemies he cannot drain.
You can't be serious! Dragon rider is, save for perhaps the Duke and Faerie incarnation, the most useful/powerful unit you can get! They have massive movement (they're always ahead of the rest of my army at least), if you give them a decent spear then with their naturally huge resistances you can have them charging many times for massive damage (I have a dragon rider that's relatively new with a lightbringer trident, it charges 6 times and deals 82 damage with each charge, if you add a duke to that you have 196, 6 attacks - screw the bites, get drain at the most in case of an emergency and then invest in charging, at that point even without the charge special they're killing enemies in retaliation with ease). They have an awesome ranged attack for a melee focused unit that gets even stronger with only two advancements (which are easy to get because, for some reason, the dragon rider draws ALL the aggro, from everything, everywhere).
My experience is that the dragon can reliably kill something each turn. But one miss with a charge means he takes a bunch of damage, he gets attacked a lot, and his high resistance and hitpoints basically offsets his low defense, so he ends up consistently beaten up and often has to pull back to spend turns healing.
I've only finished LotI1 (in LotI 2 scenario 7 or so), and I cannot run my dragon around alone for very long. Unlike the Elvish Gryphon riders, who often galavant across the map and only occasionally run away.
Last edited by dabber on November 24th, 2014, 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dabber
Posts: 386
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Bug: I like the "back" feature added to looking at the item storage. But when you are in a castle after turn 2 and select "back", it only shows potions and limited, as if you were not in a castle.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

@Cashcam24
When you first met her, she was well prepared for the battle, in a tower where she had many reserves of power that she could drain. Even if you defeated her powerful form empowered by many enchantments, her soul still contained many of the souls she stole and the spirit that left her body was still far more powerful than usual ghosts, allowing her to possess people, lending them some of her internal power. However, she couldn't repeat this process indefinitely and after some time she was so drained that she could merely observe the events. After some time, she recovered a bit and regained her ability to possess, but that possession was easy to resist and did not bring any additional powers except her combat skills.
Damn I wish reasoning in science was as easy as this.

@wuxiangjinxing
This is a result of copying save files from 1.10 to 1.12. It will happen anywhere, even in mainline campaigns. Please don't report bugs that appeared after moving save files from old versions (copying the campaign from the older version is perfectly fine, but save files cause annoying bugs).

@Drakilian & dabber
I will wait till you come to a conclusion.

@Drakilian
Fixed it. Not uploaded the change yet.

@naikon
The save files should work, but I can't assure you that it will not create some errors (but I think that living with these few errors is less bad than losing the save files).

@dabber
Fixed. Not uploaded the change yet.

Drakilian
Posts: 48
Joined: March 18th, 2013, 8:31 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Drakilian »

dabber wrote: My experience is that the dragon can reliably kill something each turn. But one miss with a charge means he takes a bunch of damage, he gets attacked a lot, and his high resistance and hitpoints basically offsets his low defense, so he ends up consistently beaten up and often has to pull back to spend turns healing.
I've only finished LotI1 (in LotI 2 scenario 7 or so), and I cannot run my dragon around alone for very long. Unlike the Elvish Gryphon riders, who often galavant across the map and only occasionally run away.
Maybe i'm just incredibly lucky, but I have a single dragon rider taking out entire enemy keeps because the a.i is suicidally rushing to attack it over literally anything else and it does very well - even against the corrupted units, if you've bothered to upgrade the ranged attack.

I pack them up with some nice armor and boots (doesn't matter that their movement is reduced because it's so high) and they can take anything, particularly if you've gotten the heart of ice/iced boots combo (I've gotten, like, 5 of those iced boots, they drop everywhere).

It's true that it doesn't last long on its own but the amount of units that it kills in retaliation alone is rivalling that of my demigods - actually, I think he might be getting more kills since i'm holding back my demigods until they get enough redeem path options for worthwhile advancements to appear. But after it's reduced to low health values it can always flee (with its massive movement) and heal up fine, or you could unstore a healing potion (I feel like I find one at every level, I never use them though, I hoard all the damned things until a boss fight shows up) and heal it up for another round.

If defence is a legitimate issue then I would suggest not putting it in mountainous-forrest regions, if it's on the plains then it rules supreme. Obviously it won't do well against elves in the forrest, or well-defended mountain units - that's just a basic principle of any unit in Wesnoth, you don't fight well defended units on their home turf (unless you have tons of magical attacks). If accuracy is an issue (it shouldn't be, since you attack enough times and your charges are powerful enough to kill with one shot that you'll likely kill the unit you're after in one round), make a weapon with the marksman property and give it to your dragon rider.

Also, about the low defense offsetting the resistances and high hp - I disagree, resistances and high hp are worth much more than a high, footpad-like defense, the survivability of units with low resistances and hp but a high defense is significantly lower than that of units with low defense but high resistances/hp. You go for the defensive route then you're trusting in luck, and if you get hit once or twice because the RNG gods did not deem your sacrifice worthy then you're screwed. You know what you're getting with the other, you can plan out your round more carefully.

dabber
Posts: 386
Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

Text Errors
Elvish Overlord: advancement says "dealing more damage with teh spiderweb sword"
Scythemaster: advancement says "confusing enemies with more attempts". It feels wrong to me. "more attempts to confuse enemies" or "confusing enemies more often" would be better.

Chapter 6 Grammar comments
02_Who_Am_I
line 260, Efraim says "And please, let me fight and regain my skills, summon them yourself."
Should be more like "And please, let me fight and regain my skills, so summon troops yourself."

03_Into_the_Light
line 31 "Destroy the demons and whatever what brought them here"
line 106 "The surface should be near, although... the darkness here seems to be still very dense. Weird."
Swap two words to ""The surface should be near, although... the darkness here seems to still be very dense. Weird."
line 231 "A pessimist would have told that the world changed into a desert."
Should be "A pessimist would have said that the world changed into a desert."

04_I_Hate_You_I_Hate_You_Too
line 177 "No... I did not mean that... But we need a huge army to walk this world. There is too many perils, and we two cannot stand them."
Should be "No... I did not mean that... But we need a huge army to walk this world. There are too many perils, and we two cannot handle them."
(could use something other than "handle", like "stand up to")
line 213 "No! Maybe we can achieve that by diplomacy! With as few millitary power as possible!"
Should be "No! Maybe we can achieve that by diplomacy! With as little military power as possible!"

05_Friends_No_More
line 107 "After several days of traveling through the desert, he arrived into a small town. He was quite sure that nobody will let him to speak with somebody who might possess worthy knowledge, so he just headed into a local tavern."
Should be "After several days of traveling through the desert, he arrived at a small town. He was quite sure that nobody who might possess worthy knowledge would speak to him, so he just headed into a local tavern."
line 413 "You are quite powerful. You have probably the experience required, help us to fend them off and lead our army against the undead!"
"You are quite powerful. You probably have the experience required, help us to fend them off and lead our army against the undead!"
line 435 "Well, if you are so in hurry to leave this world, I can assist you. Just come a bit closer, and do not hide behind your monsters."
Should be "Well, if you are in such a hurry to leave this world, I can assist you. Just come a bit closer, and do not hide behind your monsters."

08_Misguiding_Lives
line 156 "She left her undead far behind, and entered the city, pretending to be a messenger bringing a message to the young heir, lord Philip."


More importantly, I just downloaded 1.12.0 and current LotI then did directory compare between what I was running and what I just downloaded and found 2 issues.
Unholy Hunger event still pops up the wrong text - says 3, gives 2. Foul Potion description also says 3.
It looks like wrath is broken. File stats.cfg, line 3761, says "advaced".

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Fixed the problems you mentioned, not uploaded them yet. In the case of wrath, I made it give 3 rather than adjust the information.

dabber
Posts: 386
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by dabber »

In Chapter 6, Axadria, the enemy leader is given hit and run. But the AI never uses it.

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Dugi
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Dugi »

Are you sure about that? I've seen enemy bosses with that mod return to their keep after attacking if it was possible.

Drakilian
Posts: 48
Joined: March 18th, 2013, 8:31 pm

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by Drakilian »

Dugi wrote:Are you sure about that? I've seen enemy bosses with that mod return to their keep after attacking if it was possible.
I've never seen an enemy boss bother to use its hit-and-run ability either, they just let themselves get cornered and killed.

wuxiangjinxing
Posts: 53
Joined: December 23rd, 2008, 5:01 am

Re: Legend of the Invincibles

Post by wuxiangjinxing »

I'll rather regard this as an ai-related problem. In older versions ai even do not know how to use leaders and healers.

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