Legend of the Invincibles

[tbaker]

I have 2 invalid WML errors for you. They are both on the Chapter 5 scenario We Walk in the Shadows. I uploaded the Start of the scenario where they both happen

[Dugi]

I fixed it, it will be uploaded with the next version.

Both error messages are completely harmless, so it doesn't hurry.

[Aevyn]

Here are some bugs / questions.

1) The highlander trait has a parenthesis at the end. Noticed this when I recruited a thief highlander (in case it's relevant)

2) The AI in the ascension scenario (campaign 1) doesn't behave as it used to. Enemy units attack each other in clumps all over the map and Hephaestus seems to be more concerned with capturing villages. Completing it in 8 turns appears impossible, and with Hephaestus healing on villages, I doubt it would be possible even with an extended turn duration. (Playing hard mode btw).

Skipping the above with debug mode

[Dugi]

1. Which version are you using? Because there is a change in trait descriptions in 1.11.8. There are no parenthesis at the end in my code, something must have added them.

2. I suppose that you're using a version of wesnoth with new AI created by mattsc. It can have a negative impact on scenario difficulty, and I believe this is the case. Can you send me a save file from the beginning of that scenario or recommend me how many turns should be available instead?

[Aevyn]

Hey again,

I'm using 1.11.12. And yes, it should be the new AI. Attached you'll find the save with the scenario.

As for a turn limit increase... with the behavior of the AI, I believe 15 turns should be adequate. Spirits no longer primarily target Efraim but each other, so you have to go hunting for them. Takes some running around.

PS: going through the campaigns again with the new AI will be interesting. I'm looking forward to infinite legion and bloodbath particularly, as well as other heavily AI dependent scenarios. I'll inform you of any balance differences from the old AI.

[Shaggy]

Hiya guys, that's it... Now i feel ashamed. I just can't seem to get along with bloodbath.
Each time I try it i just get more pissed grrr
I kind of lost my spirit
So here's the gz from bloodbath, i even switched to easy heh...
If you need an earlier save, no problemo, I'll upload that too.

A note on the Infinite legion if hard difficulty proves to be too hard, I gave woodland cloak to lethalia, recruited 4 units and left them there along with Efraim a went around them to the east then south with Lethalia. I had to pull Efraim back on the finishing turn but finished it without a drop of blood spilled...
So, i hope you'll have more luck with bloodbath than i had.
Btw i want a replay as well, so i can see where i went wrong.

[Dugi]

@Aevyn
I have almost managed to defeat him in 8 turns (but it was maybe the 5th attempt).
So I have increased the turn count by 1 and changed the enslavement mechanics (also shortening the scenario's code) so that a spirit is enslaved when it dies in a turn where it was struck by Efraim or his thrall and when it is enslaved, it keeps its experience (also the unit type if it managed to advance), but cannot attack that turn.
Attaching the modified version.

__________
Somebody please help Shaggy, my skill with the game have faded and I don't know what is acceptable gear for that scenario and what is not.

[Aevyn]

Thanks, Dugi. I'll start from that save then.

Downloading Shaggy's save as well. Love that scenario

Edit:

Okay, I just opened your save Shaggy. Should no one respond to this thread by the time I'm done, I'll edit it once more with comments about how it went.

Here are some initial comments before I start, though. I'm comparing this to the state of my own army when I usually get to this scenario:

1) You're working with a fewer amount of heroes than I would have. I notice you only have 2 of the loyal units given to you (out of the 3) and you have no other max levels. During Lethalia's adventure to Malin, I would have trained 3 to 5 extra elvish units for that fight. Thus, you're sort of at a disadvantage from the beginning

2) Here's a quick tip: before you finish campaign 3, unequip all items from all your other units. At least, I assume you didn't since I'm not really noticing any amazing weapons..... but I do see a Sword of Krux, which means you started from the very beginning.

3) During the scenario prior to the one you're playing, DO NOT let the AI control your army beyond the first 2 turns or so. The same goes for Bloodbath. If you control them yourself, you'll have much more to fight with.

4) Training units with "leadership" and healers will help a lot. Elvish warlords and Faerie incarnations are what you should have tried to level up before reaching this scenario. The overlord helps, but a warlord can give so much to that army of undead. Incarnations would heal

5) If you don't have any decent weapons / armor -- get defensive stances and lightning agilities. These items are decent and cheap; they should be your base until something better comes along. As I'm starting your save, I'm basically equipping your stronger units with them.

As I said above, I'll post more when I finish.

[Aevyn]

As promised. Finished the scenario with a replay attached. Many things are wrong with that save that I'll talk about below

As I was rushing and it was my first attempt with your units, I played like a CPU, but this is a good thing as it proves no fantastic amazing super strategy is needed. Had this been my own save and I actually cared about the units I put work into, much more maneuvering would have been involved

Why you're extremely disadvantaged

1) The troll leader recruited very little trolls. When this happens, it usually means that you killed many in that cave where you had to talk to the troll leader with Efraim. As a result, you have to also send units to his side or the enemy cpu will pierce through your line on his end.

2) Ineffective item distribution. I'm seeing many items in your inventory yet none are really equipped to any of your stronger units. Even if you don't like them, you should at least craft the basics (konrad's might, defensive stance, lightning agility) as I did in your save. Also, I'm seeing a frozen locket.... equip that to Lethalia or some major unit immediately

3) Your army is underpowered. I would have had 3-5 level 4 units, one being an elvish warlord and the other being a Faerie Incarnation.


How I played in the scenario

1) Do #2 in the above and equip units with items.
2) Don't have Lethalia and Efraim as spectators; use one (and later both) to lead the battle. I usually have lethalia in the very front at the beginning and when I have no more gold let to constantly recruit, I move Efraim in as well. The CPU targets your main players primarily.... even if it's units aren't strong enough to defeat them. With the preserved liches, you should be able to kill tons.
3) Recruit chocobones and healers. Why? For archmages...
4) Target Archmages! They have splash damage so you want to kill them immediately. Furthermore, the enemy recruits 3 of them per turn so if you leave them alone, they build up on you.
5) Survive for 11 turns. . Again, fight with the cpu. It doesn't play defensively so neither should you.
6) profit


Hope I helped. Being the unit-obsessed player that I am, I probably would have restarted the campaign if that was my team; Not to say that you have to, but a better collection of units could make that scenario much less stressful.

Regards!

[tbaker]

Spoiler:

The biggest key is Number 5. On my attempts I only had one Walking Corpse for the undead army. I spent a lot of my gold on disposable units, targeted mages, and when it got to tight on Lethalia and Efraim, had them run away. I played with your group and pretty much did the same thing. Advanced the undead up the middle, threw some to the right where the trolls are, had Efraim hold the center by himself and survived for 11 turns.

[Panpiper]

I've very much enjoyed this campaign. A very long game where I can keep building for hundreds of scenarios is my ultimate. I thank you ever so much, those involved in creating this.

Question however. I was very much under the impression that the game was complete with ten sub-campaigns (~200) scenarios. However I have just completed the fifth sub-campaign and the game has now ended with a "to be continued...". Did I download an old version of the game? Did I perhaps encounter some sort of bug? Or is the game not yet finished?

[Dugi]

You have to start from the sixth chapter from the campaigns list, it's impossible to continue there from chapter 5. Enabling the continuation would mean like doubled loading times (the game always loads all scenarios), some transfer issues because the second half of the campaign has slightly different rules (more unorthodox) and problems with balancing.

[Naron]

Slightly off-topic: has anyone thought to do a "Let's play" about Dugi's campaign on Youtube? It would be amazing.
I can not do that because I'm clumsy and I would be very embarrassed to show my clumsiness on Youtube.

[4b4b4b]

I am at foul pits scenario and I have killed Lilith for 6 times already, will I really be able to destroy her?

[Dugi]

@4b4b4b
She has a keep deeper in the cave, you have to kill her there.