The White Troll (1.1.0) - 1.16 Campaign

[Elvish_Hunter]

That's all I noticed before the first scenario, sorry if it seems like I pointed out a lot. I am a native English speaker however, and everything I pointed out either sounded awkward or looked like it could use some improving with the sentence structure.

You shouldn't be sorry. Corrections from native speakers are always valuable, so thank you!

The campaign was 9/10 in being fun, the only reason it wasn't a 10 for me was due to the two scenarios I talked about and how ridiculously hard they seemed to be.

I'm currently replaying the campaign on Hard, and I found several points where the difficult may be improved: for example, I'm planning to lower side 2 gold to 175 in Outpost. Once that I finished replaying, we'll discuss my proposed modifications, as well as uploading for the 1.11 series.

[zepko]

@ mithc: thank you for your notes, they are more than welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed playing.
I'd be curious to know one thing: do you remember approximately how many units (and their level) you could save in scenario 5? I think the scenario is a good opportunity to level up some elves, but if players find it too difficult maybe I'm wrong...

[mithc]

@Elvish_Hunter: Alright that'd be great, I would be glad to help in any way I can.

@zepko: I managed to save an elvish hero and an elvish archer that was about to level up. I was really hard pressed in that level as the enemies always outnumbered my forces 2 or 3 to 1 at all times, so on an unlucky turn they would just decimate my forces and on a lucky turn it would still be 2 to 1. I think that scenario 5 decimates your forces rather than as a build-up scenario. I think that scenario 7 is the build-up scenario, because the player can use the trolls or the summons to take the brunt of the damage while the elves clean up or vice versa with the trolls.

I also have a text file with even more proposed text and dialogue fixes, would you like me to send them to you in a PM?

[Elvish_Hunter]

I also have a text file with even more proposed text and dialogue fixes, would you like me to send them to you in a PM?

You can just attach it in this topic.

[mithc]

Alright here is the text file with the proposed text edits. I tried to make the edits as clear as possible, I also included the original text with them so it would be clear what I changed, I pulled the original text from the game files. If you have any questions on any changes or want to know why the change was made then feel free to ask.

EDIT: The first text file was an older copy of my proposed text edits. The one attached to the post now is the most recent file.

[EZE]

When I got to #7 and saw no units to recall, I got confused. Thankfully I found this official topic.

The Outpost - This is intentionally hard, but it should let you level up some elves, useful in the next scenarios. In scenario 7 you can recall the units that you managed to save, i.e. those you moved to the tent before Galagor, as explained in the objectives.
Clash in the forest - As I told before, Galagor can recall units if you saved them.

I wasn't sure how this worked, so I made a "just in case" save before scenario ended. Now that I open it up I found the small print on the scenario objectives. How about adding an extra dialogue when the bridge goes up to explain they have to go on the tent, and not just cross the bridge?

I'll do a full review after replaying #6 again and finishing campaign.

Edit:
What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the campaign on?
Normal, 1.10.3

How difficult did you find the campaign? (1-10)
7. I had to re-load a few times each level.

How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
They were pretty clear, except for #5 and #3. In Back Home I killed every goblin "in the cave", but one was still alive outside so I had to restart from the beginning and hunt them down better.

How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenarios?
I liked how it all fit together.

What were your major challenges in completing the scenarios?
#1 - just finding a spot to fight, constantly got wiped out and had to restart.
#4 - staying away from heavy infantry
#8 - keeping blue team alive, since they were so broke

How fun do you think the campaign is? (1-10)
This thing was a meat grinder, but AMLA was a big bonus. Summoning was also cool. 7

What, if any, are changes you would have made to the campaign to make it more fun?
Make AMLA apply to more units, such as Brandir and Urgh at the least.

I enjoyed it overall, Thank You

[Elvish_Hunter]

After a long time, we managed to port the campaign to the Wesnoth 1.11 series. So, this post announces the release of version 1.0.0 of White Troll! Why 1.0.0? Because the campaign is complete and playable from start to end.
These are the changes so far:

Spoiler:

• Removed special #ifver code for team colored star ellipsis
• Removed MISSILE_FRAME_BOLAS macro
• Removed sighted + moveto + [filter_vision] integration, not necessary any more on 1.11
• Updated RAGGED_FLAG, Animated Rock, Young Gryphon, Druid, Giant Ant, Giant Worm, Great Ogre, Wose Sapling, White Whelp, Melime, Troll Boulderlobber to use the new compact animation syntax
• Removed unused Rock Golem and Stone Titan units
• Renamed images/units/whelp-skeleton to whelp-die-5; also renamed subsequent files
• Used proper persistency code in scenarios 5 and 8
• Added two macros in amlas.cfg to shorten the code
• Delson is now in a cage in scenario 3, to avoid losing only due to bad luck
• Moved and merged some [item] tags to prestart event in scenario 3
• Removed now unuseful side 3 in scenario 3
• Reduced required summonings in Mystic Pond to 6/8/10
• Side 2 can recruit only one Horseman
• Added ITM_ANIMATED_CAMPFIRE macro from ARL, and used in scenarios 5 and 6
• Removed Urgh's portrait that was backported from 1.11
• Added missing death sound to Animated Rock
• Removed first line with name from ability descriptions
• Giant Ants are now level 0, with appropriate ellipse
• Avoid message {06_DIALOGUE_OGRE_DEATH} being shown when the Trolls kill the Ogre leader
• Made Trolls and Ogres target each other in scenario 6
• Fixed regeneration not curing poison for Melime
• Added TURNS_RUN_OUT to all scenario objectives
• Added show_turn_counter=yes in scenario 5 objectives
• Replaced caps (shouting) with <big><b> markup
• Removed gold bonus for side 5 in Clash in the Forest
• Fixed a bug in amlas.cfg, where some Troll AMLAs had the same ID
• Made Final Battle easier on harder levels
• Added warning screen at campaign start if version < 1.11.5
• Added dialogue corrections
• Delson can summon Giant Scorpions instead of Ants
• Removed all the special ellipsis macros, as star ellipsis are now assigned automatically to leaders and hero ellipsis are included in the IS_HERO macro
• Deleted ellipse= line from white_whelp.cfg, as it clashes with IS_HERO as of 1.11.5

As usual, please report any bug that you find. Have fun!

[rmj]

An interesting, entertaining campaign.

Here are some suggested changes for the dialog of the first three scenarios:

Spoiler:

02_STORY
story= _ "But Hunthor's thirst for revenge was great. Being exiled from the community of elves, he decided to address to a race he despised to satisfy his anger. So he went to the human village of Tridel, and explained the situation to the local commander."
> Hunthor's thirst for revenge was great. Exiled from the elves, he turned to a race he despised to satisfy his anger. At the village of Tridel he explained the situation to the human commander.

"The humans were very interested to know everything about the magical troll but, not completely trusting the elf, they sent a patrol to the forest, with the purpose of gathering information about the elvish village and how the troll was protected and, if they had the occasion, to capture the creature and bring it back with them."
> "The commander wanted to know everything about this magical troll, but from a distrust of elves, they sent a patrol into the forest to gather information about the elvish village and how the troll was protected. If the opportunity arose, they were to capture the creature."

02_DIALOGUE3
message= _ "I have watched the shaman, Captain. The elf was speaking the truth, she is teaching magic arts to a troll. But now they have retired in the city, we can't capture the troll now."
> "I found the shaman, Captain. The elf was speaking the truth. The shaman is teaching magic arts to a troll. But they retired into the city and we can't capture the troll."

message= _ "Your race has forgotten long ago how to listen to the forest's voices, if you have ever been able to hear them. Luckily for you, I know how to decipher sounds and other signs: a group of elves is approaching, we must leave at once."
> "Your race has forgotten, if you ever had been able, how to listen to the forest's voice. But I do know how, and I am sure that elves are approaching. We must leave at once."

message= _ "If some elves are really approaching, I doubt we can outrun them. Go on without us, Hunthor, and reach Tridel. Take my ring, show it to the city commander, explain him what's happening and tell him to report to Lord Denvan. He will understand."
> "If elves are really coming, I doubt that we can outrun them. Go on without us, Hunthor, to Tridel. Take my ring, show it to the city commander, explain him what's happening and tell him to report to Lord Denvan. He will understand."

message= _ "You come here, in our forest, and dare to face us, after spying on us? No one of you will leave the forest alive! Catch them! Nobody must escape, or they will send their army immediately, knowing that we are unprepared to face them."
> "You come into our forest and dare confront us after spying on us? None of you will leave our forest alive! Catch them! Nobody must escape or they will send their army immediately knowing that we are unprepared to face them."

03_STORY
story= _ "Given the growing human pressure on the village, the council established that Eruannon and Melime should be better protected. For this reason, they decided to head to Melime's house, deeper in the forest. Brandir offered himself to escort and guard upon them."
> "Given the growing human threat to the village, the council decided that Eruannon and Melime must be better protected so they decided that Melime and the troll should return to her home deeper in the forest. Brandir offered to escort and guard them."

03_DIALOGUE
message= _ "Your house is so deep in the woods, why have you chosen to live so isolated?"
> "Your house is so deep in the woods. Why have you chosen to live so isolated?"

message= _ "I haven't seen any goblin in these surroundings for many years, I wonder what they are doing here..."
> "I haven't seen a goblin around here for many years. I wonder why they are here..."

message= _ "It seems he entered a cave."
> "I think he went into that cave."

message= _ "Perfect, so he will not have a way out. Let's catch him!"
> "Perfect! He will not have a way out. Let's catch him!"

message= _ "There's a druid here, closed in a cage!"
> "There's a druid locked in a cage!"

message= _ "He seems to be in troubles, we must help him!"
> "We must help him!"

message= _ "Ah, I was almost forgetting one thing. Summoning!"
> "Ah, I almost forgot. Summoning!"

message= _ "What? You could have created an army of these things in any moment, and yet you waited for us to rescue you?"
> "What? You could have created an army of these things at any time, so why did you wait for us to rescue you?"

message= _ "Not in <i>any</i> moment. You see, dear General..."
> "Not at <i>any</i> time. You see, dear General..."

message= _ "You aren't? Well, they'll make you as one. As I was saying, dear Lieutenant..."
> "You aren't? Well, they should make you one. As I was saying, dear Lieutenant..."

message= _ "Good question, child. I need to find some more ingredients for my potions, or the good mushrooms I collected in this cave will be almost useless... If you follow me West into the forest, I can teach you something."
> "Good question, Child. I need to find more ingredients for my potions or these useful mushrooms I picked in this cave will become almost worthless... If you follow me west through the forest, I can teach you things."

[zepko]

@rmj: Thank you for your notes, we will go through them.

From today version 1.0.0 is available also for Wesnoth 1.10, including (almost) all the updates and fixes.

[Andrettin]

I began playing this campaign and saw some things which could be improved in the dialogue of the first mission (I am playing Wesnoth 1.10.7).

Melime says: "But he is only a whelp, Hunthor! He has no guilts!"

"Guilt" is uncountable, so it cannot be plural - a person can have a lot of guilt, but they cannot have "many guilts". As such, I suggest changing the bolded phrase to "He has no guilt!".

Hunthor says: "Phew! I know his race and I know what they can do. Trolls have slaughtered my father and my brother, without showing any mercy, why should I behave differently? Until I am alive, no troll will wander freely in my village!"

"Phew!" is an exclamation of relief, which seems to me to not be what you wanted to express here. "Ha!" would probably work better. I also suggest changing "Until I am alive" to "As long as I am alive".

Brandir says: "Hunthor will be back. His hatred and fury have made him lose his mind. Maybe I should have killed him."

Hatred and fury are near-synonyms, and consequently there is little reason to have both there at the same time. I suggest changing it to "His hatred has made him lose his mind."

I liked the premise of the story quite a bit, and am enjoying the campaign

[Elvish_Hunter]

rmj, Andrettin : thanks for your suggestions. I just uploaded a new version (1.0.1) on the 1.11 server; this one contains your corrections, as well as some fixes for a few AI deprecation warnings in the second scenario. As soon as he can, zepko will backport these updates to the 1.10 branch.

[nuorc]

Sounds like an interesting campaign!

new version (1.0.1) ... As soon as he can, zepko will backport these updates to the 1.10 branch.

I'll wait for that.

[zepko]

I'll wait for that.

Ready! Version 1.0.1 is available on the 1.10 server.
Enjoy and have fun!

[nuorc]

Just dl'ed it.

First thing I noticed: the addon icon shows a grey troll?

Edit: I try to hack & slay my way through on easy... I had to figure out who of my heroes can recruit. I didn't get the AMLA bit at first, so I probably wasted some xp. I generally like it so far. Fighting and maps are interesting (meaning I had to go back a few times).

I like the story so far, although it probably wouldn't hurt if someone like a skilled native speaker would polish over the text. I also thought that some elves were very disrespectful and rude, while I imagined them to have a more diplomatic tone.

And I didn't really get this:

wt-outpost.jpg (10.95 KiB) Viewed 6082 times

Nice work!

[zepko]

First thing I noticed: the addon icon shows a grey troll?

Use your imagination

I didn't get the AMLA bit at first, so I probably wasted some xp.

I strongly suggest that you advance your two heroes with AMLAs as much as possible, since in next scenarios it's almost mandatory to have them as powerful fighters.

I like the story so far, although it probably wouldn't hurt if someone like a skilled native speaker would polish over the text. I also thought that some elves were very disrespectful and rude, while I imagined them to have a more diplomatic tone.

Sure it wouldn't hurt, and any native speaker willing to suggest any improvement would be more than welcome. Also, Hunthor is supposed to be harsh in his speech, while Brandir and Galagor are wiser and more respectful.

And I didn't really get this:

That's supposed to mean you have to resist for 25 turns, after which something will happen and the objective will change. And the "show_turn_counter" command shows the overall amount of turns.

Nice work!

Thanks!