How to counter Ghost spam as Knalgans

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How to counter Ghost spam as Knalgans

Post by Creativity »

Basically, I was playing a MP map locally with a friend. He(he's a newbie to the game) invested 2/3rds of his gold in Ghosts. We never got to finish the game, but it left me wondering how to counter Ghost spam effectively as Knalgans. I was thinking about using Theives to backstab them, is that a good idea?


Post 2:
Oh, and before I forget, we were playing Hamlets, 150 starting gold, fog off.
Last edited by Crendgrim on April 2nd, 2012, 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged double post
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Re: How to counter Ghost spam as Knalgans

Post by Sapient »

ghosts can be a bit tricky. strong ulfs can counter them by day. at night poachers (or thunderers if you feel lucky) are good. "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."
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Re: How to counter Ghost spam as Knalgans

Post by Crendgrim »

Please don't double post if you want to add something only a few minutes afterward. Use the "Edit" button instead.
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Re: How to counter Ghost spam as Knalgans

Post by Caphriel »

Using thieves to backstab them is indeed a good idea. They'll do decent damage, and are evasive enough that the ghost won't drain too much HP off of them. Weakening the target with a poacher first will help.
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Re: How to counter Ghost spam as Knalgans

Post by The Black Sword »

The "normal" strategy works quite well vs ghosts still.
By that I mean using mainly footies and ulfs and following ToD closely. Ghosts don't have the damage to hurt footies at night and can't stand up to strong ulfs at day who can then usually be covered by the footies. Additionally the footies can do some nice plinking on the ghosts and can trap one for the ulfs to catch it well too.

Generally I recruit a mix of other units in addition to the footies and ulfs depending on my opponents recruits, I might alter those slightly to include more of the units mentioned above if they are really ghost heavy but footies and ulfs should do fine. Thieves and an odd thunderer would be my preferred choices, I'd rarely go with a poacher who can only be effective at night.
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Re: How to counter Ghost spam as Knalgans

Post by Caphriel »

I don't like recruiting many thunderers or poachers against the Undead, but I prefer poachers slightly for dealing with ghosts because they're less of a coin toss, and because of some rounding magic. The poacher's 4-4 becomes 3-4 at day, but when the ghost's 50% pierce resist is factored in, the resulting 1.5 rounds up to 2. Poachers are equally effective against ghosts at day as they are at dawn/dusk. Similar rounding occurs at night, when 2.5 rounds up to 3.

Of course, despite that, unless the enemy player is recruiting a lot of ghosts, it's unlikely that I'm going to recruit more than one poacher, and cross my fingers for intelligent.
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Re: How to counter Ghost spam as Knalgans

Post by Huumy »

I suggest recruiting one gryphon and one or two thieves.
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Re: How to counter Ghost spam as Knalgans

Post by ShadowVeil »

Even during the day attacking a ghost with an ulf is gambling, betting it on luck... I would personally use footpads to trap and Dwarvish Fighters to kill ghosts at day. Sounds ridiculous but the ghosts retail is just too low to cause a huge drain. Cheers!
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Re: How to counter Ghost spam as Knalgans

Post by Aelaris »

Ghosts always have 18 health, thunders do 18 damage. 50% resistance means 9 damage, or two hits to kill the ghost. Chance to hit is always 50%


2 thunderers = 25% chance to kill
3 thunderers = 50% chance to kill
4 thunderers = 68.75% chance to kill
5 thunderers = 81.25% chance to kill

Not really amazing.

During the day and during the twilight, poachers deal 2 damage, attacking 4 times. It takes 9 hits to kill a ghost.

2 poachers = 0% ctk (16 damage max)
3 poachers = 7.3% ctk
4 poachers = 40.18% ctk
5 poachers = 74% ctk

So that's even less amazing in chance to kill than the thunderers.

However, during the night, they deal three damage, so only 6 hits to kill.

2 poachers = 14.45% ctk
3 poachers = 61.28% ctk
4 poachers = 89.49% ctk
5 poachers = 97.93% ctk

So that's pretty good during the night. However, attacking during the night is terrifying, due to dark adepts, skeletons, etc.

Unfortunately, in most cases you will have 2 poachers or 2 thunderers, so thunderer 25% during the night is better than poacher 14.45%. So for out-right killing a ghost, it's really thunderers all the way.

However: It takes two thunderer hits to kill a ghost at full life, a ghost that has taken 4 damage, or a ghost that has taken 8 damage. It doesn't make any difference between a ghost with 10 life and a ghost with 18 life.

However, during the day or twilight, a 2 poachers only have a 36.33% chance to kill a ghost at 10 life. A ghost at 12 life has only a 14.45% chance to be killed, which, again, is worse than the thunderer tag-team. At night, a duo of poachers have a 63.67% ctk, but again, attacking the undead during the night is iffy.

tl;dr: For killing ghosts, thunderers are probably better than poachers. The exception is during the night (if you aren't scared of retaliation), and, of course, if the ghost is somehow already badly damaged.

Personally, I go with daytime Urfserkers and Thunderers. A pure Urfserker <--> Ghost trade is slightly profitable. I avoid Footies and Poachers (since I don't want to attack during the night due to Dark Adepts and Skeletons high offense), but I guess if it were a pure, pure ghost spam, I might be tempted.
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