[Complete] Best two units, the tournament

[Gnork]

We must have enough players by now, what next (adressed to ye with experience organising tourneys)?

Still waiting a bit for latecomers

Oh, and a contender is still thinking about his choice of units, so I'll have to wait for his answer too

[ZhuQ]

The only problem I have with using the elvish lady is it is not included in PYR (I believe) and is also prone to getting the snot beaten out of it by everything. If we were using elvish ladies as our leader, I would seriously consider using saurian skirms/fencers just because of the blitz-assassination possibilities. Whhich brings me to my second question...
What ARE the stats of an elven lady? I know its got 6 mp, no attacks, roughly 35 hp? I must admit I dont know..

Oh and how many groups will there be? 4 x 4? Top two qualify for finals?

Oh, and in the case of tie-break could we use the earliest turns game won to decide? (e.g if I win on turn 16, 20 and 25, and Gnork wins on turn 18, 18 and 19, he would go qualify, having won his games faster than mine.)

ZhuQ_

Edit: lawl.. Failed to see that only the TOP player in each group qualifies..

[Gnork]

The only problem I have with using the elvish lady is it is not included in PYR

We are using the PYR era modified by Dunno (see first post).
For stats, see here

Oh and how many groups will there be? 4 x 4? Top two qualify for finals?

Exact rules will be fixed when the number of players will be known for sure.
But with 16 players, it would be 4 x 4 indeed, with top (4x)1 qualifying for final group.
Thanks for your proposal of tie rule, it seems to me to be a rather good one

[lesy]

i'd like to join.
units: adept&thief
leader: lieutenant

[Gragorak]

Oh and how many groups will there be? 4 x 4? Top two qualify for finals?

What about having 2 big groups? Everyone would play each other once, and the top-4 of the both groups would qualify to the quarter finals. Quarter finals would be like this:

QF1 (1. of the group A vs. 4. of the group B)
QF2 (2. of the group A vs. 3. of the group B)
QF3 (3. of the group A vs. 2. of the group B)
QF4 (4. of the group A vs. 1. of the group B)

And the semi finals would be like this:

SF1 (winner of the QF1 vs. winner of the QF2)
SF2 (winner of the QF3 vs. winner of the QF4)

And the the 2 remaining players could play play eacamong themselves (maybe 3 games) in the final.

[Haart]

Count me in with ghouls and orcish archers, please. I will give my reasons for that exact choice later in original topic. Right now i will only mention that, in addition to their other good sides, ghouls seem to be a hard counter to "adepts+generic melee" combo that is running rampart in our minds, since they take only 8-2 damage from adept at night and poison melee units on retaliation.

Note also that i'm barely mediocre player so, while i'm able to explain in details why i consider that combination to be one of the "best", i doubt i will be able to use it to it's maximal effectiveness when faced with such a skilled players. Therefore, i will play not for sake of truth (for comparison of unit pairs to be fair it would be necessary for players to be of strictly equal skill and that would be impossible) but for fun, amusement and new experience.

Considering game versions: i vote in favor of using 1.9.x branch. Not because it buffs orcish archers (in my combination they will be mostly used to counter things that are impervious to poison and to make finishing blows so pierce damage doesn't matter much) but because if we'll compare unit pairs using 1.8 stats, any conclusions we'll be able to make will become outdated once 1.10 will be released; 1.9.x branch uses unit stats that hopefully will not change anymore, so anything that this tournament will tell about unit balance will stay true in 1.10.

[soul_steven]

switching my team (im sure this will happen two or three more times Anyways I want elvish archer and Ghoul.

[Dunno]

Maybe we can wait until 20 players register and make 4 groups with 5 players and then copy quarter finals organization from Wesnoth Time Twister

[Gnork]

I'm not favourable to knock-out final phase because it would emphasize paper/stone/scissors effect.

I'd prefer my original idea to get a final round-robin group, to reward the best and more versatile pair.

[soul_steven]

5 important aspects that have not come up yet that still need discussed.

1. when you host a pyr game the map always starts a turn later then normal starting tod since the first turn is recruiting is there a way around this or a way we can make a map pack that starts a turn prior to normal?

2. In case of a tie what is tiereaker? my vote goes to the head to head of those two players first and foremost in case of a three way tie not sure what to do...

3. which version of wesnoth are we playing on since that could effect peoples units.

4. How to do the groups. My vote is two large groups and top 4 advance in each group past preliminaries (either that or top 2 if you ant a short tourney)

5. when does the carnage start!

[soul_steven]

forgot to mention in last post which maps are played on?

[Haart]

Anyways I want elvish archer and Ghoul.

And what if your opponent has skeletons? That's the catch i too almost fell to: this tournament is about pairs of units that we consider most effective against any other such pair, not about pairs of units that we consider most effective against pairs picked by other participants. If nobody yet came up with woses or skeletons or ghosts (or ghouls), that does not mean you don't have to account for them, even if you know that probability of skeletons showing up is low. That's why i (after long thought) paired ghouls with orcish archers: while they don't contribute much in most of match-ups here (and certainly have better alternatives in most of these match-ups), they cover almost everything ghouls don't cover (namely trolls, woses, all undead beings except skeleton archers and low-defence high-hp pierce-vulnerable units) while being cheap (and therefore relatively expendable) and not contributing any new weaknesses.

[soul_steven]

no one will choose skelton since they are all scared of the adepts;) if there was skeltons choosen i would have rethought it for sure. Im not to worried for that as of right now though.

[Dunno]

I'm not favourable to knock-out final phase because it would emphasize paper/stone/scissors effect.

I'd prefer my original idea to get a final round-robin group, to reward the best and more versatile pair.

Ah, good point. Forgot about that.
Btw, please stop posting before reading previous responses, I don't understand why so many people here have this bad habit.

[Haart]

no one will choose skelton since they are all scared of the adepts;)

In my opinion, it does not matter since it's "the best two units" tournament, not "two units that are best against the list in first post" tournament. Rock does not become the best just because scissors are trendy and nobody will pick paper. I prefer to try and account both for unit combinations that are presend and for ones that are not, for otherwise it would be an arms race going in circles. Of course, that's just my take on this matter and i will never try to enforce it on anybody else; it's just that personally i would be hard-pressed to call some unit pair the "best" if it has multitude of dead counters.