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Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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boru
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Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by boru »

Matt, thanks for your many comments.
mattsc wrote:Before getting into specifics, a general comment: I found it very hard in my own campaign to set up "running scenarios" (as in, running away from something) that only have one or few units and are not either trivial or unstable. I actually have come to believe that that is essentially impossible, because either the units can outrun the pursuers (=boring), or if not, the battle has to be very easy (or it becomes unstable). I was happy to see "It takes a Swampling", which is very entertaining and even requires a bit of thought down in the sewers (although even that I wouldn't exactly call hard).
A bit of advice if you plan to try a scenario like this: limit recruitment of quick units.
mattsc wrote:Whenever the goblin spearmen advance, I needed to click on the advancement window twice (as in, the window popped up a second time after making the choice).
I'll look into this. I think I changed something with the spearmen in the latest version.
mattsc wrote:It Takes a Swampling:
- The dialog at certain key points is set up for Clammie and Kennison to do things in a certain order. For example, when you get to the trap door the first time, I moved Clammie next to the torch first, opening the passage, then moved Kennison onto the trap door. The dialog was set up for things to happen in the opposite order and didn't make 100% sense that way. Similar things happen when you get to the other torches and (I think, don't quite remember), when you get down into the sewers
This should all be fixed in the next release.
mattsc wrote:- In the swamp village down in the sewers, Clammie only has 20% defense. Is that intentional?
If you mean the village in the water, that's the default defense that water villages provide.
mattsc wrote:Clammie the Healer: I didn't find this very interesting. You walk around for a while looking for Shining in the cave, and then he just sits there and lets you kill him off. To me it feels like this was added as an afterthought to an otherwise interesting story-only scenario.
Yeah, this is probably the weakest of the 14 scenarios and deserves a rewrite.
mattsc wrote:Thunderstruck: the units turning into thundergobos heal fully when they get the sticks. That's very convenient once you figure it out, but I wouldn't have expected it to happen that way.
I consider it a levelup, even though thundergobos are technically zeroes like spearmen.
mattsc wrote:Meet Mister Blydd:
...
The interesting thing about this one is, it plays differently each time. Sometimes the archduke's army is wiped out, and then you'll need extra goblins to beat Francois' army. I admit the scenario smells a little tomatoey, but the real surprise comes when you replay it and the other side gets the advantage.
mattsc wrote:- In the objectives, it says "Defeat: Kennison (if recruited)", even though you have him from the beginning. Or maybe that was Eeep; my savefiles have been overwritten by now. It says it for both of them, but one you get from the beginning.
Thanks, I was having some bugs with Kennison's recruitment so I finally decided to just add him automatically, but didn't update the objectives.
mattsc wrote:Dire Wolf Cave: I don't usually like big battle scenarios or underground scenarios all that much (I don't really know why, I just don't), but this one is great.
I got complaints about this one in the past, but I think the teleporting statues help the pace a lot.
mattsc wrote:Last 2 scenarios: when the player plays the orcs, the dialog shows "It's now 's turn" - probably because the side doesn't have a leader.
Thanks, never noticed this.
mattsc wrote:Full Circle: Shining's team name shows up as "1" in the status window.
Will fix in the next update.
mattsc wrote:How does a Peltast manage to throw the same spear 4 times in one ranged attack? Or does he carry 4? Or maybe he has a rope attached with which he pulls it back really quickly? Ok, that was supposed to be a smart-ass comment. :) (I actually have something along those lines planned for the second part of my campaign, which is why I noticed it.)
In mainline, Merman Spearmen get 4 ranged attacks per turn. I guess the Peltasts learned it from them. :wink:
mattsc wrote:As for difficulty, I played on medium and thought it was not particularly hard, especially after the first few scenarios, once you have a lot of gold. You can throw your forces at the enemy and don't need to worry about playing defensively with limited resources. As I said, I read your comments on gold, so I know that is intentional (and I agree very much that balancing is always a challenge) -- and I have to admit that this kind of offensive play is a lot of fun, so I don't mean this in a negative way (even though I take the oppsoite approach to most of my scenarios). And there certainly are parts where you have to be pretty careful, especially early on. So, no need to change anything (especially since there is a hard level that I have not tried). I am just telling you this because I personally have no idea how hard people think my campaigns are until somebody tells me (and it's been clear that I have misjudged it at times!), so hopefully it's a useful comment.
Yes it's useful, since there were some major changes to the amount of gold given in 1.1.7 and you're one of very few to have commented since its release.
mattsc wrote:I hope it's ok that I wrote all this. As I said, take it as my personal thoughts while playing the campaign. One of the things I like most about Wesnoth is that there are so many different ways to set up scenarios. This really is a great campaign and it's obvious that you have put a huge amount of effort into it. Thanks for creating this, I enjoyed playing it very much.
I appreciate the time you spent writing all this, especially since there hasn't been a lot of comments lately. I've had trouble staying motivated on the project, in spite of the many improvements I want to make. There will definitely be another update which will include the new campaign map, the wolf name database and Dunno's pillager sprite.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
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pyrophorus
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Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by pyrophorus »

Hi Boru!
I'm an enthusiastic fan of Swamplings campaign, so I've nothing to say but praises. Dialogs and story are really great.

I had just a glitch to mention: in "It's takes a swampling", when Clammie and Kennison fly with a large army at their heels. In my first attempt, the leftmost spearman got the 'quick' trait and ...
boru wrote: A bit of advice if you plan to try a scenario like this: limit recruitment of quick units.
I think you already fixed it. :lol2:
Thanks for this great campaign !
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boru
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Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by boru »

Pyrophorus, when I said "limit recruitment" I did not mean there would be no quick units at all. The first round of recruits ought to be notrait (as of version 1.1.6) however there will be some quick units later. I hope they will not be able to overwhelm Clammie & Kennison as they sometimes did in the past.

Your enthusiasm is much appreciated. :)
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
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Evander
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Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by Evander »

Having beaten all main storyline campaigns I must admit that I found this one campaign interesting, but... I can't seem to beat the very first scenario.
By the time that most horsemen are dead and I am moving what is left of my goblin horde alongside 'unique' units towards the Shining it is like 20 turn or smthing like that.

see, the regular swamp goblins don't have 'swamp savy' trait and often get 'slow' so they move one or two hexes per turn... but maybe it's just me?

Also, I find so elaborate speech in goblins pretty unappealing.
If we so smart and talkativ, why we not have sharper sticks?
In Grnk the Mighty at least one had some reason for this particular goblin to be 'smarter'. Here it's just... weird you know.

So, because I can't progress in campaign, I can't give any real feedback on this one - all I can do is to ask about strategy tips for first scenario :lol2: :whistle:
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boru
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Re: Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by boru »

Hi Evander,
Okay, I'm not sure why you're having too much trouble ... you just need to move your gobos to the fortress to the north and hold out a little while, then move northwest. You'll lose some goblins but since you've beat all the mainline campaigns you already know that. What difficulty are you playing at?

There is some justification for the goblin's higher intelligence in spite of their primitive surroundings. The really dumb goblins did not survive the difficulties what this tribe endured. As the campaign goes on, they get better weapons to fight with. For example the goblin pillager has a net to fight with because of an encounter with a mermen netcaster, and healers learn their spells from years of slavery under saurian augurs.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
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Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by mattsc »

Evander, did you go to
Spoiler:
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Evander
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Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by Evander »

@above
Got this female skirmisher and wolves ;)

@boru
Difficulty is medium. Reason I am stuck in middle ground is as said above: golbins move very slowly (1-2 hexes per turn throught the swamp) and Shining is spawning like 6-8 horseman who make goblin pulps out of my entreched goblins, while it is not so easy to make a horse meat steak from them in return. Before I kill those horsemen I'm usually out of 2/3 of my goblins. Perhaps I should sacrifice wolfs or something?

@Intelligence
As someone once said to someone else, a goblin, who is a very smart - for a goblin - will not be so bright for an elf anyway.
As this is your design choice, all I can say is that I prefer goblins to... "use shorter sentences" and speak IC (in character). Just a personal taste - it help keep the feeling of campaign :)
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Dunno
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Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by Dunno »

Well, perhaps you could add a replay? This way we could comment in a more detailed way and hopefully help you. :)
Oh, I'm sorry, did I break your concentration?
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Evander
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Re: Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by Evander »

I took a look at this replay and it seems kinda messy.

I guess that playing late at night is not always a good idea. I will give this campaign a second try soon :)
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boru
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Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by boru »

There's no reason you should need to sacrifice wolves.

Did you notice that you can recruit an extra goblin per turn from the fortress? This can be helpful.

Making intelligent goblins was a design choice, I really didn't want to do a whole campaign about stupid characters. Dumb gobos might be more true to some international gobo standard, I suppose, but these guys are kind of interesting too.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
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Heindal
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Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by Heindal »

I just finished the campaign in 1.10:

- good level design and very good map design
- nice and suprising storyline
- nice extra units and abilities
- funny unit comments especially in the late game

There seems to be one little bug concerning sides: "<WML>: Fehler: empty side = is deprecated, use side=1 "
(haven't seen this bug on the last three pages so I just posted it)

Good work! Keep it up!
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energyman76c
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Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by energyman76c »

ok, I am stuck in the 5th scenario. I moved Clammie back to the trap door and nothing is happening ....
borad
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Re: Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by borad »

Just finished this campaign on medium, and it's very very good; specifically because it really tells a tale (with some comic counter-counter-counter back-stabbing), and because there's so much variety in level goals and great use of non-conventional scripts.

Plus some awesome lines of dialogue. Perhaps my favourite was:
Spoiler:
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Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by Zerbugug »

Hello !
I've just finished the campaign on medium and it is great. I really like the plot and dialogue, especially what regards the Kennisons, and playing the goblins is interesting.
My comments (mostly criticism because I never think of good things to say but keep in mind I enjoyed this campaign) :

* I get two bugs : when goblins level up I get two prompts and there's an already reported error message at the beginning of each scenario.
* In several scenarios, you get several factions to command, which only makes everything more tedious and drives the autosave system crazy. Why not add them to the player's side ? This is particularly true of leaderless factions (the orcish archers, the two dwarves).
* The scenario where Shining flees in a cave is mostly useless.
* The spear in the cave is too far away ; the troll should open the way sooner. Also, the teleporting statues should be more obvious (some hint from Skandix ?).
* I didn't understand what you are supposed to do with the petrified skeletons.
* Horde of zombies vs goblins is a poor match. The goblins die very fast which creates some more zombies. You end up keeping a line of previously levelled bats and wolves (wildfire is great against zombies) supported by healers, replacing all wounded by fresh units. No chance to get any xp for your goblins, and it can last very long.
* If Clammie gets the spear and then drops it, he keeps the attacks. This way two different units can have them. Probably not intended.
* Once you get wolf riders you stop using all other units because they suck so much, and you have a handful of non-goblins units to replace them. In a general way goblins are way too difficult to level to be worth recruiting if you have a choice, because they die so quickly.
* Archers come very late so you won't use them. I only recalled the crossbowman. Now you're used to archers so it's not much of a problem (it would be if it were thundergobos).
* You don't have much time to level your wolves and knights to direwolves.
* The cutthroat isn't interesting ; its ability is useless because you have loads of gold and the enemy doesn't, he is weaker than a direwolf and lacks slow and wildfire, which are very powerful. The firefly on the other hand is a great unit.
* Fighting the mermen is quite difficult. I found no other strategy than staying in my keep and waiting for them to come ashore, while I sent some bats to grab any village they abandoned. I don't know if this is intended.
* What are knights and lords and orcs doing there four hundred years before the arrival of the Wesnothians ? Also, what are mermen doing in a swamp ? Don't they live on the seashore ?

Once again, don't think any of this is important. The last one especially should not be taken seriously. Who cares if the different campaigns are coherent ? This is not mainline material anyway (not serious enough).
I am the cat who walks by himself, and all places are alike to me. — R. Kipling
Feareth
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Re: Swamplings - v1.1.7 - for 1.8 and 1.9

Post by Feareth »

Wall of zombies in dire wolf cave cant kill them all or get close to the leader and supposedly statues teleport? the only one i saw worked was the one the ghast when through and hes the only one that was able to use it i cant use any of the statues ive been on all that i could get to
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