When Is Save/loading Bad?

[Elvish_Pillager]

Posting this because I've been save/loading. Not in a traditional way, though. In Bay of Pearls (IHBOP=I Hate Bay Of Pearls. For future use...) I start the scenario and send the mermen to fight. If they lose, I start again. This is a successful tactic, since the mermen have about a 60% chance of winning. I dislike it however, because it's save/loading. But there's no way around it... similarly, it's easy to save/load for advantageous enemy recruits in any scenario, and that seems bad, but it's impossible not to...

[Circon]

I wonder at the first option...
Fun will disappear really quickly at that rate.

I voted for 3. (Although I did do a save-load when my 10-5 magical attack (Sylph) missed every single time - under a quarter of a percent chance of that happening. )

[Elvish_Pillager]

(Although I did do a save-load when my 10-5 magical attack (Sylph) missed every single time - under a quarter of a percent chance of that happening. )

This is a case of 'it's not really right, but I'll do it anyway.'

However, when I do this sort of thing, it's when I've been unlucky for a whole turn, which amounts to a much greater atrocity, I think. (In several saved games a good deal into campaigns, I tend to have 5% better damage taken than expected and 2% better damage dealt.)

[Circon]

Hey, that's a very good way of checking for save/load cheaters: Check the damage/EV values!

[scott]

My reload rule is only at the scenario start.

My exception is when my leader/hero is killed. I figure I get 3 lives just like any other video game.

[Elvish_Pillager]

Hey, that's a very good way of checking for save/load cheaters: Check the damage/EV values!

No, it isn't, because of the forced saveloading I pointed out, which always occurs to some extent. It's only a way to check whether the player has been nethacking.

[Roel]

I reload every 5 seconds, every 3 seconds when I'm playing on my fast pc

[ott]

With 0.8.7 HttT seems to have become much harder on Hard, with huge swings in damage away from expected values (eg. 50% over EV for both dealt and taken over several scenarios). It's probably just me having a rough time with the random number generator, or with AI improvements from 0.8.5, but save/loading is looking very tempting!

[Kirdan]

From my experience with 0.8.5, I'll have to say that the game is designed in such a way that many scenarios are very hard unless you discover "the secret trick". I can't imagine anyone completing a campaign in first try. (My first try at "The Ford of Abez" involved using the island to defend, because I had a reasonable strong army... that turned out to be suicide for reasons clear to those who have played the scenario).

You basicly have to know how the scenario works to win. That's a design decision. I guess the alternative would be that to many scenarios became far to easy to play when you know them... but the result is that you have to save/load at the start of each scenario to avoid wasting hours and hours of starting over on the entire campaign everytime something unexpected happens.

I'm not sure I would play wesnoth at all, if I couldn't start over on a scenario, but had to go back to start the campaign... that would simply take way too much time.

[Dacyn]

Do looking at WML files or savegames count as save/loading?

[Elvish_Pillager]

Here's another kind of insidious save/loading I've noticed myself using: In a scenario, I make a crucial decision: based on a certian choice, I will succeed or fail the scenario. I try, and if it works, I win. If it doesn't, I try again... and make a different crucial decision.

[strider44]

My first try at "The Ford of Abez" involved using the island to defend, because I had a reasonable strong army... that turned out to be suicide for reasons clear to those who have played the scenario

Really? I had huge success doing this - I found out that if you park Konrad, the magicians, and a couple of knights on the right hand side, the two armies would charge and the sea serpants would wipe them out and get wiped out with them. However you had to make sure that you never layed a single toe on the western shore.

[Doros]

With 0.8.7 HttT seems to have become much harder on Hard, with huge swings in damage away from expected values (eg. 50% over EV for both dealt and taken over several scenarios). It's probably just me having a rough time with the random number generator, or with AI improvements from 0.8.5, but save/loading is looking very tempting!

I've been noticing the problems with the EVs as well. My actual values are almost never anywhere near my expected values, and I don't save-load.

[Kirdan]

Really? I had huge success doing this - I found out that if you park Konrad, the magicians, and a couple of knights on the right hand side, the two armies would charge and the sea serpants would wipe them out and get wiped out with them. However you had to make sure that you never layed a single toe on the western shore.

Yes... I found it difficult to avoid getting someone killed (sand is not your best environment). And you get an late finish by staying on the island. You need money for the next scenario. I've posted a describtion of my tactic in the "walkthrough thread".

Here's are replay which pretty much shows it finishing on turn 9. To be honerst I don't know what the wolfriders were doing, but you can do the same even if they resist. You have plenty of wolfrider-zapping units. (Kalenz, Delfador, two Tritons with 10kV connections )

[Trias]

I thnk im the only person that voted "nethack" style.. but i dont like to reaload.. its cheap.. so i just play the campaign through.. though its annoying.. its very rewarding at the end when you beat it knowing you didnt have to cheat.