Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

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Valkier
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Re: Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

Post by Valkier »

Hurray for Kitty!

I found a sword reference with a handle of that style. As I mentioned in my post, everything is out of alignment on it right now. Aside from that, and as you mentioned, I did have a reference for that type of sword handle. Now I'm not sure if the metal part was meant to be used as a pummel, handle, or if I was perhaps bamboozled in to believing it was an actual representation of a real sword design and not some fantasy garbage. I'll see if I can dig up some more research and make any changes to that part of the design.

Head has been bothering me quite a bit. Thanks for pointing that one out.

I was not aware there were limitations imposed on perspective and foreshortening of these portraits. As such, I'll happily remove the effect entirely. The brown spot (if you're referring to what I think you're referring to) is his cloak coming down his back more. I'll try to make it more apparent what it is or remove it entirely. I was trying to come up with something that would be a possible peasants cape of sorts.

Anatomical and perspective crits on Morvin would be nice, though someone all ready brought up his wonky right (our left) arm. The one in front sort of bothers me as well, as does his head size and a host of other issues at the moment. You're probably thinking the same things I am, but please do post your thoughts.

The lich was done at about 6 AM with no line work, in roughly 20 minutes, and probably with no shortage of vodka involved. It's crap and will be restarted with much greater attention at a later date after I get Morvin, Tallin, and a restarted red head elf completed. That said, I do want to know if top hats are allowed.

Good to hear from ya. :D
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kitty
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Re: Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

Post by kitty »

Valkier wrote:I found a sword reference with a handle of that style. As I mentioned in my post, everything is out of alignment on it right now. Aside from that, and as you mentioned, I did have a reference for that type of sword handle. Now I'm not sure if the metal part was meant to be used as a pummel, handle, or if I was perhaps bamboozled in to believing it was an actual representation of a real sword design and not some fantasy garbage. I'll see if I can dig up some more research and make any changes to that part of the design.
Ah, cool. As I said I really don't know a lot about weapons - as long as it is somewhat based on something real, I'm completely fine with it ;)
Valkier wrote:I was not aware there were limitations imposed on perspective and foreshortening of these portraits. As such, I'll happily remove the effect entirely.
There are no formal limitation regarding perspective. (Although the portrait should generally be done on eye-level, neither bird's-nor worm's eye view. But extremely big monsters (like woses/trolls/gryphons) can warrant something from below) Foreshorening is a very useful technique in a lot of cases. It's just that in the way you used the rather extreme foreshortening here, it reminds more of the result a camera would produce than the way a painter's eye sees it. I've got the feeling I'm expressing myself poorly - do you get what I mean?
Valkier wrote:Anatomical and perspective crits on Morvin would be nice, though someone all ready brought up his wonky right (our left) arm. The one in front sort of bothers me as well, as does his head size and a host of other issues at the moment. You're probably thinking the same things I am, but please do post your thoughts.
I did a sketch to illustrate some issues (he probably got to muscular, I'm not really familiar with the character...): Most importantly I'd put the arms higher in order to avoid the tangent the hand is forming with the shoulder right now. Make it stand out more and by that easier to read. What is the thingie at his wrist supposed to do - is it a stealth weapon or a magical effect? His chin is really tiny. If you put his ellbows further apart he'd appear a bit more determined fitting with his expression. The rear forearm is too slender plus the way the sleeve overlaps the ellbow area doesn't follow the form. And design wise the way you imagine his robes right now makes him appear like a big tube or pillar, make it a bit more lifelike by giving him a real waistline, hips etc. And his pendant isn't laying on his chest.

I hope that doesn't sound too harsh - I really like all the detail you plan to put on him!
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Valkier
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Re: Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

Post by Valkier »

I understand what you're getting at with the perspective and foreshortening. As much of a pain as I'm sure a lot of people think I am here, I do at least try to adhere to the style Wesnoth wants. If more dramatic foreshortening is not a part of that, I'm not going to argue the point. You guys were nice enough to let me do this work in the first place.

As for the sword, I may change it a bit anyhow. I looked at references again and I got it a little off. Apparently there's more of a wrapped handle there and less metal pommel, though I did at least get the shape right. I'll just decide later if I want him using a one handed or a hand and a half ([censored], for those of you playing at home) sword. My primary concern is getting the rest of the rendering right at the moment.

I get what you're saying with Morvin, and I think we both have the same idea. Admittedly, I know very little about the character. I got a basic description of his personality, which makes me want to relax his pose a bit from your sketch (thanks by the way) but I was never told if he's big and muscular or anything. As such, I've pretty much just been winging that and seeing what looks good.

I actually have a fairly good reason behind why the top part of his robe is a little bloated looking. I plan to put some chainmail mesh there, because f**k DnD and the idea that mages can't touch metal without collapsing in to a mess. That said, I also understand what you mean about it not following around his form as much as it should. I'll also make his robe more form fitting since that seems to be the consensus. I'm aiming for a bit of a ninja mage here. I'll just come out and say it.
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Re: Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

Post by AI »

[censored] sword
Hail Scunthorpe! :doh:
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Re: Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

Post by Valkier »

AI wrote:
[censored] sword
Hail Scunthorpe! :doh:
I'll turn it in to a five foot wide magic sword with little swords growing out of it if you're not careful. Like a sword tree.

I was also just informed that Tallin is, in fact, a wealthy peasant slave who doesn't work in a field. MY MIND.
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Re: Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

Post by kitty »

Hey, he's really coming along well! Just really get him finished this time :P

I know he's still very much in the process, so take these with a grain of salt: the rear eye feels blind while the front one is over-rendered, ear is too small and too low, the rear hand isn't really gripping the handle, his hips are immensely wide for a male, I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, but his rear shoulder seems to be dislocated?

And yes, he feels rather rich for a peasant. But listen only for the mainainer's input. And if you want to get him more poor, you should simply desaturate the blue tunic, add dirt and a couple of patches - should be easy ;)
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Re: Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

Post by Valkier »

kitty wrote:Hey, he's really coming along well! Just really get him finished this time :P

I know he's still very much in the process, so take these with a grain of salt: the rear eye feels blind while the front one is over-rendered, ear is too small and too low, the rear hand isn't really gripping the handle, his hips are immensely wide for a male, I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, but his rear shoulder seems to be dislocated?

And yes, he feels rather rich for a peasant. But listen only for the mainainer's input. And if you want to get him more poor, you should simply desaturate the blue tunic, add dirt and a couple of patches - should be easy ;)
I roughed in the fixes for now. Should give the basic idea of where he's heading since all that would remain is to refine the shading and whatever. I'll just update this post as I work on him today, assuming I don't get any responses for awhile.

A few quick notes:

His front eye isn't overrendered, the rest of him is underendered at this time! WHAT NOW?! No but seriously. I'm going to be working on the skin and fabric today. That will all be brought in line if you see this before I post an update to that effect. One thing I am a little confused by is you keep saying his back eye looks blind? Before it was because it was too bright, then too dull. I'm honestly not seeing it so much in either. I brought out the blue of the iris more in this one at least and hope it satisfies what you're trying to point out. If not, I need a paintover or something.

As for him being rich for a peasant, I mean his character is ACTUALLY supposed to be a rich peasant. So to list off the apparent description of Tallin, it goes as following. He is a rich peasant who helps his blacksmith father, is a slave to orcs, is meant to be good looking enough to get an elf princess flustered, is not so much a fighter as he is charismatic, but he has to be able to lead an army himself and become a king. While this can all be demonstrated if I make multiple portraits, my chief concern at the moment is to get one portrait done for every character in NR for a stable release. I'll get a general portrait done and get others figured out later. Trying to cram all of the above in to a single portrait is impossible and possibly lead to alcoholism.

Obviously at this point I'm going to pick and choose elements I think best illustrate him over all. He's a peasant, he's good looking, and he kills people.

Edit: I have decided his new name is Douchey McDouchebag. Also I've decided I don't approve of the positioning of his arm closest to us. Will redraw shortly.
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Re: Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

Post by beetlenaut »

I was never a big fan of this portrait, but all of a sudden, it looks great! Now he's charismatic enough for an elf princess. I do think the elbow of his near arm should be more relaxed, and closer to his body.
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Re: Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

Post by Kraus »

He's definitely getting better! The first sketches weren't even near what I personally was waiting to see, but you are definitely getting better. :)

I would like to, once again just for the sake of my personal preference, see either at least some mismatching armour plates, or see a second portrait for post-dwarven part of the game, and the sword might be a bit confusing if people decide to advance him into a halberdier or a bowman. Just sayin', though! :)

But technically, he's definitely getting there. :) At least for the earlier parts of the game. The face in particular is wonderful. Well done.

Random nitpicks:
The pommel and handle of the sword seem to be not in line with the blade. There's a slight curve. Check with a ruler.
The lacing of the tunic doesn't follow the center of his body. This is actually a cool effect, as lacings don't need to be centered, but the lower part of the tunic should reinforce this then.
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Re: Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

Post by Valkier »

Kraus: As I've stated more than once, I'm just trying to get a decent portrait for Tallin in general right now. He'll get armor and whatnot later after I finish up all the other portraits.

I fixed up the sword alignment and rendered out some of the messier spots. The hand could probably use a little more work, but not terribly much and can probably be done just in the outlining process. As it is however, I am fully aware that they resemble tiny sausages. I see what you mean by the lacing, but I don't think it's such a grievous sin that I need to get too worked up over it. Really unless there are any objections I'd say he's about ready to be finished up.

I'll hold off on doing the outlines for awhile yet. It's not a long or difficult process and I want to start on the next portrait. Plus this leaves me free to work on him a little here and there because, as you all might have noticed, I frequently change my mind on the direction of a portrait.

Up next, mostly naked busty red headed elven druid! Will this be the second coming of Sexnoth? Was that pun intended!?
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Re: Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

Post by Kraus »

Valkier wrote:Kraus: As I've stated more than once, I'm just trying to get a decent portrait for Tallin in general right now. He'll get armor and whatnot later after I finish up all the other portraits.
Aware of that, and I meant no offence. :) I have full respect for artistic freedom, and understand that my opinion carries just as much weight as, well, as any feeble peanutter. Just whispering from the bushes, so I am!

To me the sword looks fixed (well done!), and the lacing was not that much of a problem to begin with, I believe - just something that might've slipped, or it was intentional. I can't really know, obviously.

I think I have to apologise for my tone in the thread for being nosy and intrusive at times. I'm just extra concearned about these pics, because NR is perhaps the closest of the campaigns to me personally. So, sorry. Everything's ultimately fine as long as you keep on working.
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Re: Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

Post by kitty »

No the not centered lacing is not a grave offense by many means :P Actually I couldn't care less.

Overall he looks really nice by now! And you're really, really close to getting him done. But I've still got some bickering left before you go on and do the outlining: His belt doesn't follow the shape of his body. The bridge of the nose starts too high up (nearly between the eyebrows, but actually there's a dent) and his ear is still a tad small and starts too high. And his hairline and the parting of the hair both feel drawn with a ruler - rough those up a bit! I'm also not a fan of the way the rear hand is holding the sword, I get the impression it's about to fall out of his hand - but if it doesn't bother anybody else, you're free to go with it.

I'm looking forward to seeing the next one!
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