Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

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Velensk
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Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by Velensk » September 4th, 2010, 6:29 pm

Salt wars is a short campaign intended to be beginner level which uses the Era of Four Moons. (5 scenarios long)

Follows the story of a guild officer whose organization comes under attack from aggressive rivals.

This thread is the place to put feedback and bug reports.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

sneef
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by sneef » September 19th, 2010, 11:12 am

Nice campaign - just finished playing it through. Some quick thoughts:

The scenario with the split jungle/desert:
- it could use something to make it more than just a race through the desert if the player chooses to do that.

The scenario with the caravans:
- was there any benefit in killing caravans/ships? I couldn't tell -- victory conditions were to survive.
- The AI attacks with the caravans once they are attacked which is useful to the player (blockers) but a
little strange.
- otherwise this was one of the more interesting scenarios

The last scenario:
- I played on the most difficult level and it was impossible to complete without a lot of within turn saves.
- Currently the opposing sides spend all their gold and then that is it. It would be more interesting with some
intermediate steps/goals, for example the faction at lower left might be neutral until some other faction was
defeated, there might be some gold chests available on defeating factions, etc, etc. Also to add color, maybe some creeps (tentacles,...) on one part of the river to add variety and perhaps delay one of the sides.

Velensk
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by Velensk » September 19th, 2010, 11:53 am

It is fine to just run through the desert if you choose however it is a bit slower and you do not get xp.

The scenario with the caravans: First of all you get a slight gold bonus, second of all for every one of them you kill the imperialist enemy in the next one loses 25 gold.

I generally don't bother to test on any difficulty other than normal however the final scenario was incredibly easy for me on normal. Creeps would not fit any of the world, the scenario, or the situation. Mid scenario reinforcements might work or I could just make it so that the last enemy leader runs away so that you don't have to hunt him down. Personally I think it makes the most sense that the enemy would just pull out their army and have that be it but whatever.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

Velensk
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by Velensk » October 10th, 2011, 4:13 pm

Salt Wars has been updated to 1.9
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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taptap
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by taptap » April 6th, 2012, 2:30 pm

It doesn't start in 1.10.1. (on hard, medium does)
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

Lavender
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by Lavender » April 8th, 2012, 4:01 pm

Thanks for the bug report!
I have just uploaded a new version that should have fixed this problem. (I hope!)

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MetalKing
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by MetalKing » April 15th, 2012, 1:16 pm

Title Salt Wars sounds interesting but I wonder how People could fight for Salt if there are alot Coasts where People can produce Salt from the Sea. To Fight to ge/keep/break a Salt-Monopol sounds possible but I don't know what you want to create.
"Sir! We are surrounded by our enemies!" - "Excellent ! We can attack in every direction!"
"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." -- Albert Einstein
No Source - No Binary - No Trust!
Map Wesnoth Springs - The great War [200x120],Player=9

Lavender
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by Lavender » April 15th, 2012, 1:52 pm

The "Salt Wars" title comes from the fact that the protagonist is a trader from the sea states, who has been assigned to a trading post far up-river where he trades with the tribes from the interior highlands. One of the principal items the highlanders are after is salt. When he is attacked by men from a rival sea-state house, it is assumed that the rival house is trying to get a monopoly on the salt trade for that area, but it is later discovered that the plot is more complicated than that.

We actually plotted the campaign first, and named it afterward.

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taptap
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by taptap » April 19th, 2012, 12:01 pm

Btw. salt was a very important commodity in real history too, while it can be produced in more than one place, it is needed nearly everywhere and one of the easiest methods of conserving food. Though the "monopoly" part of the story might not be entirely convincing.

I play the campaign on hard (and then it is rather challenging so far). 1st scenario is easy, but finishing with a good bonus is crucial, to be in shape for 2nd scenario. Boatsmen really shine in securing income (I had 3 L2 boatsmen at the end of the 2nd scenario they basically single-handedly defended the northern ford by sitting on some villages west of the river), but I did badly with alchemists they kept dying. 3rd well, I made the mistake to recruit some units against eventualities in the desert. 4th coming with >200 gold (+ getting plenty of caravan bonus I had nearly 30 captured in the end - but was still losing) it is initially easy to almost cut off the land route and severely hamper the sea route, BUT it is about impossible to disengage the escorts of the land caravans even if you retreat. Even if you are deep inside the woods (once you engaged some) the new caravans don't bother to go to the southern city but head straight for you - on hard this can be overwhelming. When I gg'ed around turn 26 I was reduced to a small perimeter around my castle, I may have been able to survive but only barely - I was supposed to weaken the opponent not myself after all. A less aggressive (letting the first caravans pass or focus on one either land or sea route) approach might work as well. I will try again, I guess I should have levelled alchemists, but I don't. (I am pretty sure I could pull this off with darklanders - because they would be able to retreat during the day due to better forest movement and have a clearer alignment than my mixed chaotic/lawful/neutral units.) Imo this scenario would gain from one or two small forward keeps in the west and east to give some options. (I would love to try a complete blockade of the sea route but letting the land route unhampered e.g.)

Great campaign, well thought-out (and high-casualty) era.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

Lavender
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by Lavender » April 19th, 2012, 6:23 pm

"Great campaign, well thought-out (and high-casualty) era.."

Thank you!
Always nice to hear that all the work Velensk put into this hasn't been in vain. :)
And thank you also for the comments and suggestions.

(I'm not as good a player as you, but FWIW, what's worked best for me in scenario four is to blockade the river, and then spend whatever resources were left over doing hit and run on the land caravans.)

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taptap
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by taptap » April 19th, 2012, 11:10 pm

Well, this time I tried leaving the river more or less alone and focus on land only (I thought experience in land units will serve me better in the end). With almost exclusively highlander units (to be able to disengage through the hills - this seems the proper strategy for the land part), I engaged only at night (engage at dusk, disengage at dawn if any unit of the caravan is still alive) and wiped out 3 complete and one half caravan and finished with L3 runner, 4 L2 warrior, 2 L2 lion guys - which is already more than is healthy to recall in the final (with minimal gold). I have some ideas for the final - although I utterly failed in the first try (being outnumbered 5:1 and with only one healer I need a plan - likely to include inducing the AI to produce plenty of ships which I hope to kill on land). Probably I should have prioritized making a doctor from scenario 1 and fought instead of simply running in scenario 3, either way 1 healer probably isn't enough in the final.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

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taptap
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by taptap » April 20th, 2012, 5:36 pm

Final: I somehow finished. Although I had to redo 2 turns around turn 10, where I had to take otherwise unnecessary risk (letting the imperialist skirmishers to the plain between ford and keep) to get my second healer levelled. No other save-scumming involved, although this "redoing" action gave me a -4% taken in the end (which is massive). The alternative would be to start the whole campaign again, which I will do but at another time. The good news is: the campaign is perfectly playable on hard if you keep your alchemists alive :). I had a critical moment around turn 15 when my line was broken and an armadillo moved into my keep.

Strategy for the final: Recall and recruit only boatsmen on turn 1, some more boatsmen on turn 2 to keep income and induce AI to produce galleys. Boatsmen are handy in the kind of defense you are forced to play esp. as they are the units most likely to survive shock troops. Lure ships on land where they are easy experience - if you don't have yet this is the last possibility to produce a second healer, but a third healer helps too. Defend at the ford and at the keep. Play passively until around turn 20, rotating, about no attacks against dedicated melee units, sparing the life of some weaker attackers (standards) to limit high damage spots, put about to level units in frontline in very urgent cases. About turn 20 I felt the main wave was defeated (although still outnumbered 2:1), Black stopped recruiting at turn 26, at turn 30 still with roughly 2:1 ratio but now healed spare units I started to break out near the keep, at turn 35 I completely split my army leaving the keep to be captured by the AI. First AI leader (green) around turn 40, finish on turn 46. Losses 13 (incl. 2 housegards, 1 loyal chief, 1 snapper - and all recruited regimenteers) Kills 158.

Campaign feedback:

On highest difficulty it wasn't obvious at all that it is a "beginner campaign", but maybe I wasn't used to the whole era and missing a lot of subtleties.

In a beginners campaign I would give a short notice at the start that villages produce 2 income for you in this campaign. This is standard in MP, but not in campaigns.

The objectives should always explain the gold carryover conditions (it is different in each scenario afaik, which is good, but especially with this non-standard carryover it should be explained).

There is little use for horses in the second half of the campaign, as they need a lot of experience to level the effort is basically wasted.

The lion warriors are great! The lion master is the only skirmishing leadership unit in Wesnoth, the lion maverick has the highest damage output among skirmishers.

The dialog needs a spellcheck! (I am not good at english language interpunction, but I believe there are many comma missing.)

Scenario 1:
famed for it's steel works -> famed for its steel works

Scenario 3:
"Now the lionesses thought was a great joke and they made to fight the hyena" -> "it/this/that" missing
"Said he to they" -> if this is meant to characterize the speaker then the very next sentence shouldn't be "But he said to them"
to weak to fight -> too weak to fight
You're saying that if we can weaken our foes sufficiently through denying them food I might be able to convince the various highlander tribes who trade with us and other people who have an interest in ensuring that the Dulsed do not get their monopoly and the imperialists don't get their iron may come and help out? -> This is a long sentence. And I would write out more I'll I've I'm in general. There is the sentence "Who's he?" e.g. where I would put the emphasis on "is" if it were written out.

Scenario 4:
I wanted to write how I would love to see the hex 12,18 changed from swamp to forest or coastal reef. This would enable hit and run techniques on the river - but probably on a second look, I should take the spot further north where there is a reef and thus more possibilities to disengage.

Scenario 5:
A death dialog, if a loyal chief dies, would be a nice touch. The replay has me starting with 412 gold although I had in fact 450 minimum gold, which is an odd bug producing an error in the replay (although you can still watch it).

Thank you!
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

Lavender
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by Lavender » April 20th, 2012, 8:29 pm

Thank you for all your feedback!

I'll check to see what fixes/improvements I can do on my own, (although it'll have to wait until I'm finished cheating my way through Velensk's expert Four Moons campaign, Panther Lord, to makes sure it all still works) and then make sure that Velensk takes a good look at your post when he gets back. :)

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MetalKing
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by MetalKing » April 22nd, 2012, 1:06 pm

The Story for you Campaing sounds really plausible. I will try anytime you Campaign.
"Sir! We are surrounded by our enemies!" - "Excellent ! We can attack in every direction!"
"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." -- Albert Einstein
No Source - No Binary - No Trust!
Map Wesnoth Springs - The great War [200x120],Player=9

Baltese_Windragon
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Re: Salt Wars (EoFM campaign)

Post by Baltese_Windragon » February 3rd, 2014, 6:20 am

Great era, great campaign. They both show a level of sophistication/strategic depth that is very rare in Wesnoth. My favourite scenario was destroying the convoys from the swamps, though I agree that some way of making it clearer that the enemy got weaker from convoys destroyed would be good (maybe a dialogue box in the next scenario that changes depending on how well you did?). Anyway all the campaigns I've played from that era have been very good... please make some more!

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