Ancient Lich Development

[Neoskel]

Here's one of my concepts.

If you can't read the spider's trail, it's basically three saurian skeletons attached to a human skull by their tails.

It actually kinda reminds me of heraldry.

Edit: yeah, i'm gonna post the rest of these as scans from my sketchbook when i get the chance.

[lostnumber]

Okay, How about this:

If I was any good in these portraits, My portrait would have:
1. A skeletal dragon's body and huge two or three pairs of skeletal wings
2. A long bony tail (I just think it looks cool)
3. Two dragon heads coming out of each side of his neck.
4. A pair of normal human hands (One holding the staff, while the other glowing with intense dark energy)
5. A pair of bony troll-fists.
and last but not the least,
6. Four pairs of spider legs.

Dude... read Valkiers first post, where he SPECIFICALLY says NOT to do what you just did.

[Valkier]

Loving the submissions so far.

TSI: I mentioned it in IRC all ready. I think you should pursue your last sketch a little more and see what comes of it. It has a lot of potential.

Neoskel: I like your idea a lot! I think you should push it a bit further as well and see what you can make with it.

Lostnumber: Yeah, I all ready mentioned it to TSI. He's been warned earlier. If he can't figure out basic reading comprehension then he's out of here. Otherwise if he posts anything else against the guidelines, just ignore it. If he can't be bothered to read, then we shouldn't be bothered to pay attention to him either.

I think I'll refine my last gaseous/magic sketch a little more and see what comes out of it. I'm really digging it at the moment. Thanks for the comments, Dixie. I will add some stuff and make him a little more lichey.

[Neoskel]

Here's two more concepts scanned out of my sketchbook.
I had to shrink the images so they wouldn't be horrifically huge, the quality has suffered a bit.

The first one would be right at home with LordBob's Brouillon Bonehorrors. The lich's skull is in a gilded cage hanging from the inside of a skeletal cage formed from a pair of drake wings with the 'wrists' crossed over. The wings are connected to part of a drake ribcage facing the back of the construct, supported by four legs made of composite arms. The cage the skull is sitting on has two saurian arms connected to it to cast spells and hold that ugly scroll case. The whole thing could possibly use some additional ornamentation.

The second one is a very old and tired concept, but i think it's something that would appeal to one who seeks to master death. It's a simple human skeleton with two gryphon wings (probably a young/midget gryphon so they'll fit ) attached and a grim reaper theme. The wings have some rotting feathers attached to them, though i'm ambivalent about functionality. The symbolism is more important here.

Edit: Also, I think that the first use of the word bones in tsi's description is kinda weird. I propose it be changed to 'the body one was born with'.

[Trilby]

It would be interesting if this also gave rise to a new Ossuary like subterranean tile set. Some of these bone constructs reminded me of a Svankmajer film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c4kmWJ0dd8

About 2 min 30 sec in is when things get going. Nice Jazz too.

[A-Red]

I assume, then, that each individual campaign boss lich is available for a sprite remake, as well as one or many "generic" versions?

[Zerovirus]

Man, I really really really want to lay claim to some of these awesome concept artworks for spriting... But I doubt I have the time.

I drew some designs of my own, but I haven't been able to get to a scanner.

[Darker_Dreams]

I like the spirit-like lich (of course, I made a sprite trying to express a similar concept, so I suppose in a way that's already been said).
the skull in a cage, on the other hand, might be doable but right off it feels (to me) more like a pet of some sort.

As a thought, how inhuman is inhuman enough and how inhuman is too inhuman? While extremes are possible, should the *default* ancient lich be radically inhuman, or should it be something generally human-ish in form while variations and individuals push outward? For one thing, with the exception of things like extra arms- what concrete benefit do some of these forms bring? (EOL#34: I will not turn into a snake. It never helps.)

art... I don't have anything (at the moment) just some (other peoples) art I found digging around for thoughts and inspiration;

Spoiler:

ymmv, just some stuff that seemed... interesting
http://sites.privateerpress.com/images/ ... rm_RPG.jpg
http://athenaeum.keepersoflists.org/wp- ... wraith.jpg
http://www.mattinian.com/Pics/LichLord.jpg
http://media.photobucket.com/image/Necr ... Necron.jpg
http://www.kieranyanner.com/wp-content/ ... rdKing.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kRm2JG596XA/R ... /Vecna.jpg
http://www.gosfordhobbies.com.au/shop/i ... lge-67.gif
http://www.bradstokan.com/Necromancer1.gif
http://paizo.com/image/product/catalog/ ... 4_500.jpeg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/85 ... _super.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/i/dwivconcept008.jpg/
http://www.bosskillers.com/pix/bbguild/ ... -Stand.jpg


ok, not anything near a lich or undead, but the headpiece is cool... sometimes thats what matters.
http://mi9.com/datawallpapers/data/12/1 ... 20x886.jpg

[Valkier]

Darker_Dreams: I considered adding this addendum, but for some reason did not. Thank you for bringing it up.

In no way do ancient liches have to be some insane inhuman concoction. My first few images got people thinking, and I'm extremely grateful for their generosity, but they should not be considered gospel. Simply put, the only rule of thumb is they need a human skull. You can attach that to something as human or inhuman as you want.

I can't speak for others design philosophies, but I can at least tell you my own. If I add a part to a body, it has a purpose of sorts. This is not to be confused with decoration garb mind you, as I figure as long as that doesn't get in the way of what the person/monster does then all is fair. So to illustrate, extra mouths for chanting more than one spell at a time, extra hands for any hand motions, extra eyes for being able to see a broader range or further, and so on.

Now then, *my* personal goal for a design is not specifically to make something less human. I am aiming for something disturbing and creepy looking. So far, the closest I have come is my shadow lich concept. This is not to be confused with what people *should* be doing. Aim for creepy, powerful, disturbing, twisted, etc. It doesn't matter to me, and I doubt it matters to the administration. The ultimate goal here is a solid design, and to let me and my fellow artists have a little fun and learn in the process. How anyone does that is entirely up to them.

Now once this is all over, I can't say exactly how each of these will be used. If I had to guess, the strongest portraits will be used to make new sprites for the different campaigns. So I don't want anyone to feel like they're contributing towards something they'll never be acknowledged for. My only claimed slot in all this is designing for the character Arthian in Norther Rebirth. From what I hear, there are many other ancient liches in Wesnoth.

[Darker_Dreams]

there are many other ancient liches in Wesnoth.

Now there is a disturbing image...

[Zerovirus]

...Must resist urge to produce sprites...

On another note, I'm not a portrait artist but the brushes you used in its torso and for the energy flares seem strange. One's a transparent circle and the other is like a dotted line, if I'm not mistaken? Why would you use those two specifically?

[Valkier]

...Must resist urge to produce sprites...

On another note, I'm not a portrait artist but the brushes you used in its torso and for the energy flares seem strange. One's a transparent circle and the other is like a dotted line, if I'm not mistaken? Why would you use those two specifically?

I wish I could sit and give you some long explanation about how the eye works with value and blending two colors optically and whatnot, because that would make me sound damn awesome. The truth however is that I liked the texture. The lines gave a nice inky-in-water look to me and the circular brush reminded me a bit of a spinal column.

[Zerovirus]

Well, that kind of works I guess. For me, the circle texture reminds me of some sort of spectral muscular development, which makes the Lich look... Ascended? Like he has harnessed the concepts of lichdom and flesh in one bundle.

Then again that's probably my internal fluff addict talking.

[johndh]

Must we be able to actually produce a finished portrait, or just a good enough sketch for a concept? I can probably do one, but not the other.

[thespaceinvader]

Concepts are fine to illustrate something. if you can provide a concept and it looks good, someone else can run with it if they like it. If not, then just describing isn't much use.