Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

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Unnheulu
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Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

Post by Unnheulu » May 18th, 2010, 6:53 pm

<old-title>: I tried multiplayer again...Lost again..How can I improve?

It skips out the last turn as I forgot to save a replay on it...
Feel free to tear my technique apart, I wanna be better!

--Thanks in advance

-----------------------old post above

In this topic I will save replays of all my mp games, for you to criticise or ignore at your pleasure ;)
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Velensk
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Re: I tried multiplayer again...Lost again..How can I improve?

Post by Velensk » May 18th, 2010, 7:32 pm

Notes: Of all the 1vs1s distributed with mainly Cysaurian Battlefield is probably the least balanced. It is the one map where I regularly pick my faction (drakes or knalgans) and I find that this map makes it very hard on a faction which is overall less mobile or has less strong scouts. I would give griffons a slight advantage on elvish scouts though cost helps to balance it slightly.

Turn 1: This is a very poor start on this map. The map is huge, and you will need your most mobile units to spread to the outside and fight for villages there. You can wait to recruit your less slow units until you reach the second keep but they contribute nothing except upkeep at the moment. You will also need to get your leader headed toward the forward keep as being there is critical to this map that he be there.

Turn 2: You need to send more scouts north. No adequate preparation to grab villages to the east.

Turn 3: No comment.

Turn 4: No comment.

Turn 5: You must pay more attention to villages on this map. With 44 villages up for grabs if you don’t pay attention to gaining at least a parity of 22, you will start to fall so far behind on units fielded it will be impossible to win.

Turn 6: Sending your leader out when the number of units a leader can recruit per turn is so high. Each turn away from your castle on this map could be as much as 3 units you don’t have. (though in your case it isn’t as much a problem)

Turn 7: No comment

Turn 8: No comment

Turn 9: No comment

Turn 10: Inevitability is running its course.

Overall: Economy.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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Unnheulu
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Re: I tried multiplayer again...Lost again..How can I improve?

Post by Unnheulu » May 18th, 2010, 7:37 pm

Thanks Velensk, glad you took the time to point out exactly which turns I messed up on!
I'm hoping to do better in my next game^^

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Re: Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

Post by Unnheulu » May 18th, 2010, 8:09 pm

In this game, I got a load of advice after from caphriel, so you don't need to comment...
I think a mistake was using ghosts as scouts instead of bats, maybe that would've been better.
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Caphriel
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Re: Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

Post by Caphriel » May 18th, 2010, 8:34 pm

Please feel free to comment on my play, and the comments I made to Unnheulu after the game :)

Velensk
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Re: Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

Post by Velensk » May 19th, 2010, 1:33 pm

Turn 1: I would have gotten a bat rather than the second ghost both for better village grabbing/stealing and because in certain match-ups ghosts are quite vulnerable and are too expensive to invest to heavily in. I would also suggest trading out one of the skeletons for a ghoul or an extra adept (ghoul is better defense, adept is better offense)

Turn 2: No comment.

Turn 3: you should have sent the north west ghost to grab the other village instead, that way you could claim the one on the peninsula more swiftly and you’d still be able to claim the one you did next turn (with your leader)

Turn 4: The offense with your ghost was simply foolish. Even at night, a ghost alone and unsupported won’t last long vs a faction with mages and is 20 gold. Also, I’m not sure what your objectives with the way you’re moving your other units are, you don’t need to defend yourself yet and that isn’t an ideal way to move if you’re trying to push him back.

Turn 5: In general I’d advice against attacking units on villages unless you can reliably deal more than 8 damage or if it doesn't matter much if you fail. The latter might apply but I’d still say that the slight chance to deal some damage to his unit wasn’t worth the couple points of damage you’d take from the javelin. It might actually have been a good idea to stand the archer next to the village and do nothing.

The ghost should have gone up you didn’t need to recruit an extra bat. Your failure to grab villages swiftly combined with the fact that you are failing to stop him from grabbing the villages on the right is going to make things hard for you, especially on such a cramped map as this.

Turn 6: It was a bad time to press with dawn coming and him flanking with heavy infantry and mages you would be hard pressed to get out ahead or even intact.

Turn 7: Very poor tactics this turn. Work on figuring out what is most important in a fight. In that fight chances are that your priority should have been to keep your units alive. Day is coming and committing your units into the open, while flanked, as day is coming will be a swift death for them.

Turn 8: You were at a disadvantage long before this. I’d say that you had lost on about turn six.

The rest is just mop-up.

Overall: Think ahead a bit and try to determine when it is worthwhile to commit forces. The Time of day gives you a general framework for when you should be pressing and when you should be retreating so pay attention to it. The other thing that I would suggest is that you need to work on getting all your villages efficiently and holding your villages.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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Re: Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

Post by Unnheulu » May 19th, 2010, 2:46 pm

Opponent left halfway through the game, so I'll just post a replay of until he left...
I think I did better in this game, although I think maybe still some careless attacking/movements of units...
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Velensk
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Re: Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

Post by Velensk » May 19th, 2010, 3:08 pm

Turn 1: Way too many scouts. It’s good to grab villages efficiently however after that is done you will have trouble holding your own with bats.

Turn 2: Grab the villages furthest away from the front first, that way you don’t have your units reach the front then have to run back to grab villages.

Turn 3: Had your opponent been better he could have trapped the bat preventing it from escaping. It would have instead been better to grab the last village on your side and not have to almost certainly lose the bat for minor gain.

Turn 4: Reckless with the adept. Adepts are your main muscle you can’t afford to lose them before you’ve broken enemy lines. Fortunately for you, your opponent isn’t playing well so you’ll still have the upper hand.

Turn 5: I did not mean to spook you against getting skeletons last game, skeletons are useful and still very important the undead it is just that using too many of them will leave you very susceptible to their counters however their resistances and direct melee damage makes them useful especially against elves who have healing.

Be careful that you don’t just abandon a flank so your enemy can just waltz in and take villages unless you know your enemy has no units on that side.

Turn 6: Your opponent made a few mistakes but your play seemed fine.

Turn 7: Should have attacked with your leader first as the damage to him matters the least in this case. This turn might have been a good turn to simply sit back and prepare to retreat but that is a style call.

Turn 8: No comment

Turn 9: Was there a reason you put the ghoul in the open instead of sending him to the village for healing? There was no enemy that could have reached him in either location.

Overall: I suspect you would have won had the game continued. I would urge that you look into the "why's" of how I advice you and figure out how to apply it to the given situation rather than just following the advice.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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Re: Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

Post by Unnheulu » May 19th, 2010, 3:14 pm

Thanks again Velensk, your advice is like awesome!

I have almost finished another game, as the rebels this time...And I have a major feeling I've lost...Bah!
I seem to be outnumbered, like 20units to 1.^^

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Re: Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

Post by Unnheulu » May 19th, 2010, 4:40 pm

Unfortunately, I had to go halfway through this game, but, it was pretty clear I lost.
Again, I had a load of advice from the person I was playing against, so comments aren't necessary, just posting it here for the curious :P
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Re: Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

Post by Unnheulu » May 19th, 2010, 6:50 pm

Lost this game...bah!
I guess it all failed when I tried capturing his keep with my king, and also careless unit placement. (Again)
Also I neglected to watch ToD...again -.-
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Velensk
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Re: Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

Post by Velensk » May 19th, 2010, 7:00 pm

Commenting on the Howling Ghost Badlands game. In addition to playing to aggressive on the wrong time you also recruited to many units at the first keep. You just need units to grab villages, you can recruit slower units at second keep. Your leader could also have grabbed a village on the first turn and still made it to the second keep on the second turn.

About attacking: Do not attack until the conditions are ideal. You attacked his leader with two units who were likely to take heavy retaliation and who then could easily be mobbed by move than twice their number. Wait to attack until you can support your assault properly.

I'll look at the next game and edit this post to comment.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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Re: Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

Post by Unnheulu » May 19th, 2010, 7:02 pm

Thanks Velensk, I guess that's something I'm going to have to learn the hard way.

I'm now watching your replay against IPS, hopefully watching lots of replays will help me improve.

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Re: Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

Post by Velensk » May 19th, 2010, 7:18 pm

Turn 1: Your placement is a bit odd. Surely you would want the naga near the water source and the other units on the outside. Also, as water control is not as important on this map I’d generally advice not recruiting two naga.

Turn 2: You have a total of one unit to try to take control of/hold the three villages on the right and you send units through the center of the map. If you look at the terrain in the center you should be able to figure out that it is not an easy area to attack through. Tight bottlenecks and unfavorable terrain make it a poor avenue of attack.

Turn 3: I don’t know why your opponent didn’t steal your village but I guess it works to your favor.

Turn 4: I’ve got no idea what your opponent is thinking. The wolf move wasn’t as bad an idea as your opponent made it out to be however it was a little risky also, next time you do something like that leave yourself a good route to escape.

Turn 5: Wolf attack on right was another example of an attack that was not properly supported statistically you both should have done roughly 10 damage to each other then he should have regenerated 8 for a significant gain for his unit. Luck balanced it out but keep that in mind.

Turn 6: At this point considering how heavy he has invested in sea power it probably would have been better to draw your naga back and make use of the bottlenecks.

Turn 7: The wolf attacking the cavalry was again reckless a poor idea as it gives him a very good chance to kill you without giving you a chance to kill him. The place you choose to retreat your archer to had no lane of escape.

Turn 8: Attempting an assault with your leader denies you a constant stream of reinforcements which you would want to have considering that A: you’re northerners and B: you are currently in the stronger economic position.

Turn 9: No comment

Turn 10: No comment

Turn 11: Ah! You actually had a chance to step onto a keep hex and recruit and you choose to miss it? That could have granted you victory right there.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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Re: Unnheulu's compilation of his failed mp attempts

Post by Unnheulu » May 19th, 2010, 8:20 pm

Ok, thanks Velensk, fingers crossed I'll do better in my next game. (I'll edit that into this post)
It's awesome that you go through turn by turn, but, slightly disturbing I tend to do something wrong every turn^^

---------------

I reckon I could've won this one if I didn't attack with my leader...-.- Stupid moves ftl.
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