Old hardware, new music

Create music and sound effects for mainline or user-made content.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

User avatar
West
Retired Lord of Music
Posts: 1173
Joined: October 30th, 2006, 7:24 am
Location: In the philotic connections between ansibles.
Contact:

Old hardware, new music

Post by West » October 24th, 2009, 10:36 pm

Long story short, my main computer passed away unexpectedly a few weeks back, in it's sleep. I don't think there was any pain, it was probably the mobo that gave out. So until the time I can save up some money for a complete upgrade I'm on my backup system. Which is an Athlon XP 3000+ with 1GB RAM.

This is admittedly not the hottest system around, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let that stand between me and my music making. I dug out some of the best sounding small soundfonts I could find, cropped and mono-fied a few larger ones, and hooked up a hardware reverb to help offload the CPU as much as possible (yay for REAPER's hardware inserts!), and... I made some music.

Homeward Bound
The High King's March

These tunes are obviously not mainline quality, and even if you really like them I'm going to veto all suggestions that they should go in. We have spent so much time telling contributors to only use the very best samples they can get their hands on that mainlining low-quality tracks would really be negating the effect of all our efforts.

I'm posting this for the benefit of UMC authors who'd like some new music to spice up their campaigns. Homeward Bound is maybe not terribly Wesnothy with its almost ballet-like passages, but The High King's March is quite obviously a Wesnoth track -- you'll understand why when you hear it.

Both tracks need some finishing touches, so I'll have to ask you not to use them for anything until the final versions are posted. I just felt that some feedback would be interesting at this point.

User avatar
SkyOne
Posts: 1310
Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 7:23 pm

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by SkyOne » October 26th, 2009, 6:18 am

Hi, West


Honestly, I really like the music that you created. Both of them are incredible.

Homeward Bound: beautiful! The map has to be well-made and good-looking to use this music. I personally really like this one. Maybe, ending of the game is the best? But I have Journey's End as my favorite music and another one is Drake Campaign. It's theme music is "traveling_minstrels.ogg". Hmmm... I love this one though.

The High King's March: cool! very cool music. We can use it on any different kinds of occasion, of course, including at battling. And I realized what you meant:
West wrote:you'll understand why when you hear it.
This is a pretty good match-up with "the_king_is_dead.ogg". You did it in purpose, didn't you? They seem the same key.
West wrote:I'm posting this for the benefit of UMC authors who'd like some new music to spice up their campaigns.
I start thinking where will be the best spot to install it into one of own because I am using "the_king_is_dead.ogg" when the Elvish Lord dies. So please, let me find out where I should install it.

Edit: Currently, I am thinking:
1. A combination with "the king is dead" on the same scenario. The lower volume of "the king is dead" will be the consideration in this case. I have to install and listen to it.

2. The first music of the right next scenario that the lord is killed, called Striking Back. In this case, it will be a combination with "legends_of_the_north". I also have to install and listen to it to find out how they match each other.


Thanks for providing us nice music. I (probably, we) appreciate it.:smile:

P.S. How is your baby-daughter?
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server

User avatar
marcusvinicius
Posts: 139
Joined: February 20th, 2008, 9:33 pm
Location: Brasil
Contact:

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by marcusvinicius » October 26th, 2009, 10:38 pm

It sounds great!! Will you finish it on your main computer?
It seems like there are "pluck plock" noises in few moments, I think the first one track, maybe the soundfont sample, I dont know........
Good job, and we dont care about listen your songs in MIDI files(kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk).
Listen to the music
O que faz de mim ser o que sou. É gostar de ir por onde ninguém for

User avatar
West
Retired Lord of Music
Posts: 1173
Joined: October 30th, 2006, 7:24 am
Location: In the philotic connections between ansibles.
Contact:

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by West » October 29th, 2009, 5:37 pm

SkyOne wrote:Honestly, I really like the music that you created. Both of them are incredible.
Thanks SkyOne!
SkyOne wrote:This is a pretty good match-up with "the_king_is_dead.ogg". You did it in purpose, didn't you? They seem the same key.
Yup, definitely on purpose. I've always wanted to explore the themes from TKID further and this is one attempt at it.
SkyOne wrote:P.S. How is your baby-daughter?
Oh, she's fine. Turned two months a few days ago, and she's as healthy and happy as can be. Well, not happy all the time of course, but more often than not.
marcusvinicius wrote:It sounds great!! Will you finish it on your main computer?
Thanks. And yes, I might. Depends on how I feel about the tunes later on. I'm not much for redoing music, but I do it on occasion when I feel that the material is good enough to warrant a remake. But then again sometimes a more crude sound is just what a piece needs, maybe it doesn't sound 'right' with better samples. So we'll see.
marcusvinicius wrote:It seems like there are "pluck plock" noises in few moments, I think the first one track, maybe the soundfont sample, I dont know........
Yeah, I noticed that myself. It wasn't until yesterday that I figured out what was causing it though: there's a click in one of the solo clarinet samples. Need to fix that.

User avatar
CheeseLord
Posts: 147
Joined: February 19th, 2009, 11:07 am
Location: Knagla

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by CheeseLord » October 30th, 2009, 3:39 pm

Thanks for sharing this with us West!!
Right, some comments......

I really like The High King's March!!! Loved the theme, the overall progression, and the variations on TKID! I can't seriously fault anything in that one. Was I a UMC, I'd be jumping to use this one. Magnificent stuff - spent hours having it as backing music :shock:

Homeward Bound is good for listening to it on it's own, fabulous. However, I'd say apart from the start, it would stick out like a sore thumb in Wesnoth. It sounds too much like a trip to the local park in several parts :P but hey, it might be appropriate for some RPGs.

I also can't help feeling that the strings in the start would be better with a touch more of reverb. Maybe I've been listening to Jeremy Soule for too long (he always seems to have reverb packed in it :), but I think it sounds a little abrupt at the end, when I expected it to echo slightly after.

Anyway, looking forward to see how these turn out to be like.........and don't worry about only having 1GB RAM, I work primarily on the family PC, with a huge 256MB :wink: and sometimes on a 512MB laptop

Hmmm........I always pack emoticons into every post I make..... 8)
Lord of Cheese.....especially Parmesan!!!
None shall stand against the Dwarfs in their homeland

Top 3 quotes by a developer:

1. Locked
2. Do it yourself
3. "No"

User avatar
Tyler Johnson
Music Contributor
Posts: 263
Joined: April 20th, 2008, 11:47 pm
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by Tyler Johnson » October 30th, 2009, 3:58 pm

Not much to say West, great work as always. I loved the TKID themes in The High King's March. I think more leitmotif like this in the game would be great!

The only other one I know of is the defeat track has an oboe line very similar to the brass line in the Knolls of Doldesh.

It would be interesting to come up with a Wesnoth "theme" or motif, that we could draw melodic inspiration from when writing. I think Aleksi might be still working on a new main menu theme, I'm not 100% sure though.

What do you guys think? Leitmotif? Wesnoth? Sounds like a good match to me.

User avatar
West
Retired Lord of Music
Posts: 1173
Joined: October 30th, 2006, 7:24 am
Location: In the philotic connections between ansibles.
Contact:

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by West » October 31st, 2009, 9:34 am

CheeseLord wrote:I really like The High King's March!!! Loved the theme, the overall progression, and the variations on TKID! I can't seriously fault anything in that one. Was I a UMC, I'd be jumping to use this one. Magnificent stuff - spent hours having it as backing music :shock:
Wow, thanks CheeseLord. Personally I like it the least of these two tracks, I think it's a little boring, but there you go. Tastes differ and it's always cool when people are able to hear things in your music that you can't hear yourself.
CheeseLord wrote:Homeward Bound is good for listening to it on it's own, fabulous. However, I'd say apart from the start, it would stick out like a sore thumb in Wesnoth. It sounds too much like a trip to the local park in several parts :P but hey, it might be appropriate for some RPGs.
Heh, I know. It wasn't really created with Wesnoth in mind.
CheeseLord wrote:I also can't help feeling that the strings in the start would be better with a touch more of reverb. Maybe I've been listening to Jeremy Soule for too long (he always seems to have reverb packed in it :), but I think it sounds a little abrupt at the end, when I expected it to echo slightly after.
I know what you mean. The problem isn't the amount of reverb though (the send level is at -4dB or so, I can't very well add more without the strings ending up somewhere behind the brass and percussion), I think I need to add a quick Expression fade at the end of the notes when the pause comes. As you say, the string chords end too abrubptly right now.

As for Soule, yeah he really does use a ton of reverb :) I used to think it sounded weird but I've grown to like his sort of spacious, ethereal sound. A big and not overly realistic reverb really does help when working with samples though, he's right about that. I shudder to think what these tracks would sound like with a more natural reverb (and if anyone's curious, I used a Behringer Virtualizer Pro -- el cheapo unit, but its reverbs are actually quite good).
CheeseLord wrote:It would be interesting to come up with a Wesnoth "theme" or motif, that we could draw melodic inspiration from when writing. I think Aleksi might be still working on a new main menu theme, I'm not 100% sure though.

What do you guys think? Leitmotif? Wesnoth? Sounds like a good match to me.
Definitely a good idea, and not a new one either. This has been discussed before but IIRC we never really decided on anything. Let me see if I can dig up the thread.

Edit: ah, here's the one.

User avatar
West
Retired Lord of Music
Posts: 1173
Joined: October 30th, 2006, 7:24 am
Location: In the philotic connections between ansibles.
Contact:

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by West » January 18th, 2010, 9:39 pm

I'm afraid I sort of forgot about these tunes. I added some more RAM and came to realize this machine can actually handle a fair bit more than I thought (as can be heard from Silvan Sanctuary), and returning to these primitive samples did not feel very appealing. Sorry to those of you who have been waiting for the final versions. Here they are at last.

Homeward bound: mp3/ogg

The High King's March: mp3/ogg

I'm licensing these tracks under CC-BY, so feel free to use them for whatever you want.

Edit: Espreon kindly informed me that everything that goes on the addons server needs to be GPL'd. So I'm hereby dual-licensing these tracks under GPL v2 so they can be used for Wesnoth (and of course other GPL) stuff.

User avatar
SkyOne
Posts: 1310
Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 7:23 pm

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by SkyOne » January 21st, 2010, 1:25 pm

Thanks you, West, for updating.

I have installed "the high kings march.ogg" into one of my scenarios (not upload yet), then surprised. If my memory is right, it was "Am". But now, matching to Legends of the North is extremely well. You have changed the key to "Gm", haven't you?

Because of it, one of my scenarios is very cool. It performs the revenge for the death of their lord very well. I am so happy with it.:smile:
Thank you so much! I love you! (I have a wife who is female.:smile:)
West wrote:I'm licensing these tracks under CC-BY, so feel free to use them for whatever you want.
I, of course, will install your name on the credit list when it is uploaded. It is a nice license, like GPL.
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server

User avatar
West
Retired Lord of Music
Posts: 1173
Joined: October 30th, 2006, 7:24 am
Location: In the philotic connections between ansibles.
Contact:

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by West » January 21st, 2010, 1:55 pm

SkyOne wrote:I have installed "the high kings march.ogg" into one of my scenarios (not upload yet), then surprised. If my memory is right, it was "Am". But now, matching to Legends of the North is extremely well. You have changed the key to "Gm", haven't you?
No... it's still Am. What made you think it was Gm?

User avatar
SkyOne
Posts: 1310
Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 7:23 pm

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by SkyOne » January 21st, 2010, 2:31 pm

West wrote:
SkyOne wrote:I have installed "the high kings march.ogg" into one of my scenarios (not upload yet), then surprised. If my memory is right, it was "Am". But now, matching to Legends of the North is extremely well. You have changed the key to "Gm", haven't you?
No... it's still Am. What made you think it was Gm?
You are right. It isn't Gm. The volume was too low when I listened to it, but it sounds a bit more flat than it used to be, doesn't it?
Maybe, my ears get old though.

I still love to use it anyway. Thank a lot these music.:smile:
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server

User avatar
West
Retired Lord of Music
Posts: 1173
Joined: October 30th, 2006, 7:24 am
Location: In the philotic connections between ansibles.
Contact:

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by West » January 24th, 2010, 2:38 pm

Sharing is caring, so I figured I should post the soundfonts I used for these two tracks. I dunno, maybe someone wants to create more music for their campaigns using the same samples.

West's Tiny Orchestra

The above file unpacks (with sfpack) to a 33MB soundfont bank with 29 orchestral patches. It's not a 'complete' orchestra in terms of instrument selection, it's just what I needed and used for these tunes.

User avatar
SkyOne
Posts: 1310
Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 7:23 pm

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by SkyOne » March 15th, 2010, 2:01 pm

Hi, again West
SkyOne wrote:
West wrote:No... it's still Am. What made you think it was Gm?
You are right. It isn't Gm. The volume was too low when I listened to it, but it sounds a bit more flat than it used to be, doesn't it?
Maybe, my ears get old though.
Well, I do not expect you to do anything. I would just like to tell you my ears are not that old.:smile:

I installed the High King's March not only in Fate of a Princess at some ago, but also in Brave Wings of the Drake campaign today. On one of the scenarios in BW, the music changes from the King is Dead to the High King's March in the [event]. Then I realized its key is Ab (minor). Well, as long as you say Am, it is Am, but you can tell the key is different from one on the King is Dead. At least, it is not 440 Hz.

As I said the first, I do not expect you to change anything (of course). I am very very happy to use the current one. But as a proof, I attach the saving file for someone else. It was played on BfW 1.7.14 and Brave Wings 0.6.2. (on the 1.7/1.8 add-ons server) As soon as the side=1 leader is moved from the current hex of 20,5, some dialogues show after an explosion of one of units, then the music changes from the King is Dead to the High King's March. The leader's HP is very low, but this is just for a test, not for a playing.


Sorry for assuming too much. I am just happy to know myself that I am not that old, yet.:smile:
Attachments
BW-Thunderthrow_Turn_6.gz
(64.19 KiB) Downloaded 200 times
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server

User avatar
West
Retired Lord of Music
Posts: 1173
Joined: October 30th, 2006, 7:24 am
Location: In the philotic connections between ansibles.
Contact:

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by West » March 17th, 2010, 7:16 pm

SkyOne wrote:I installed the High King's March not only in Fate of a Princess at some ago, but also in Brave Wings of the Drake campaign today. On one of the scenarios in BW, the music changes from the King is Dead to the High King's March in the [event]. Then I realized its key is Ab (minor). Well, as long as you say Am, it is Am, but you can tell the key is different from one on the King is Dead. At least, it is not 440 Hz.
Aaaaah... I think I get it now.

The High King's March and Homeward Bound were both rendered with my SB Audigy, as I used the multiple ins/outs as an effects loop for the h/w reverb. All SB cards natively run at 48kHz. I'm guessing that Wesnoth only supports 44kHz, which means that all other sampling rates will play back at the wrong speed (and by extension, wrong pitch).

If so, this is an interesting gotcha. Maybe we need to make it a requirement that all submitted music is 44kHz?

User avatar
SkyOne
Posts: 1310
Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 7:23 pm

Re: Old hardware, new music

Post by SkyOne » April 15th, 2010, 10:52 am

Thanks for mentions.
You must be right. It sounds a bit slower than it used to be on BfW 1.7.x. In addition, it is (more) slower on BfW 1.8.0.
So The High King's March seems Gm on BfW 1.8 if my ears are right.:smile: But it is actually good to combine with Legend of the North and Knolls now.
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server

Post Reply