Orcs, never mind

[doofus-01]

Hi,

I was going to try to make a female orc character (started portrait), so I looked at the orc race description to see if there was anything written on the subject. I didn't see anything, but thought the description was a little rough in places. So, this is a pass at fixing it (in the spoiler). I'm a native English speaker, but not a great writer, so there may still be some errors.

Spoiler:

Orcs are half men and half beasts, with size and strength that is greater
than that of humans, and blood that is darker and thicker than that of
humans. They are warlike, savage, and cruel by nature and they have little
care for personal hygiene or their personal appearance. Although Orcs are
violent even among themselves, they are pack-oriented creatures; an orc
never travels far from the group or lives alone.

<header>text='Society'</header> Every orc is a member of a tribe or a clan.
Relations between neighboring tribes are usually violent, except when a
mutual enemy threatens their existence or when the prospects of great
plunder override their mutual animosity. Occasionally, a single strong
chieftain may emerge to lead multiple tribes, usually through the
intimidation of his subordinates. In times of peace, the tribes tend to
focus almost exclusively on preparations for the next armed conflict. Orcs
are known to possess a crude system of writing - usually in blood - although
it's most commonly used to trade insults or threats among tribal leaders.

A constant struggle for power simmers among potential tribal chiefs. Orc
societies are based on little else but strength; might makes right, and a
leader leads and survives only as long as no one manages to wrest the title
from him. An orcish leader rarely lives more than a handful of years to
enjoy his absolute authority before being killed by one who seeks his
position - although history knows some notable exceptions. Orcs hold no
particular honor code and while indisputable raw strength is usually the
preferred method of displaying power, assassination, poisoning and
backstabbing are completely viable means to further one's own goals.

Orcs live in foothills or mountainous regions, sometimes in caves. They
neither grow crops nor keep livestock, but are competent hunters as a result
of their physical stature and brutality. Due to their large numbers they are
capable of hunting an area virtually clean of anything larger than rodents
in relatively short period of time and as a result, orcish tribes tend to
lead a semi-nomadic lifestyle, never settling in one region for too long.
The larger tribes may establish themselves in an area for years or even
decades and build large encampments almost resembling cities, but even these
are easily dismantled and abandoned if there is a need to relocate the
horde.

Seldom do individuals live to see more than two or three decades before
meeting their end, either in war or by the hand of one of their kin, though
the oldest known orcs have been around 50 to 60 years of age. These elder
orcs are often shamans, which are the only ones seen by the others
trustworthy and neutral. The origins of this custom are unknown, as the
shamans do not directly contribute much to orcish societies but act as
advisors - something which orcs tend not to otherwise tolerate. Shamans are
in many ways the opposite of most other orcs: they are often physically
withered and frail in comparison and lack skill in battle.

Despite the race's reliance on raw strength, not all orcs are destined to
grow to possess any. Many orcs are born smaller and weaker than the rest,
and even as newborns are put in their place by their stronger siblings. The
stronger ones will routinely grab most of the food and thus grow stronger
still, while their weaker siblings do not. Many of those weaker individuals
tend to specialize in other skills, such as archery or assassination.

Sorry if this has already been dealt with, a forum search of "orc desccriptions" didn't show anything that I thought was relevant.

[AI]

Orcs mostly in foothills or mountainous regions, sometimes in caves.

You accidentally the verb.

[Zigg]

You made mistake in your post, too, AI.

[StDrake]

psst -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
that was purposeful you know? to intensify the expression of the sentences meaning

meanwhile- i'm not very into the idea of orcs having no sence of honor..or at least silly pride if they can tell the difference
in fact i do remember some scenes where orcs mention something like a warriors pride/honor in wesnoth..but then again it might have been just umc so maybe it's not against the canon after all

[thespaceinvader]

I certainly feel like the SotBE orcs have a Klingon-ish sense of honour, but very much on the brutal side of things. And they're definitely not above underhanded tactics.

[doofus-01]

I think Zigg just has a very dry sense of humor...

I tried not to change the meaning of the description, so I did not add anything. I think that description is pretty old, maybe from when HttT was the only campaign? (I guess I could check SVN...) If Delfador and his elf buddies were narrating it, it would make sense that the orcs came across as stupid jerks with no redeeming qualities.

If I were to add or change anything, it would concern their technology. They are clearly better at mining and metalworking than humans, who must give their level 1 fighters spears while the orc grunts get swords and closed-face helmets. Or maybe there is some other explanation.

[thespaceinvader]

They use more bronze, and their society is more based on the use and maintenance of weapons.

They also scavenge a lot. They have poor-quality gear in general, compared to that used by human armies.

That's at least 3 explanations, take your pick

[doofus-01]

Hhmm... I like mine better.

[melinath]

There's no evidence that I know of that humans "must" give their level ones spears. It could be and probably is a choice.
Nor is it correct to say that a sword is inherently better than a sword. Each has advantages and disadvantages. The drakes, who are definitely expert smiths, don't even use swords, but the whole clasher line (even the level 1s) uses spears.
For that matter, there are level one human units (Cavalryman,Sergeant,Fencer,Bowman) that do use swords.

[doofus-01]

"Swords are, for many, an expensive luxury, and one which peasants can ill afford. Spears are much easier to make and will do well even without a spearhead, though most can afford one...

And grunts are cheaper than any of those other guys. (And the drakes used to have swords.) That was my line of reasoning...

I didn't really mean to start a debate, I just thought it would be nice to mention their technology a little more in the description. But if it is not necessary, it is not necessary.

[thespaceinvader]

Swords are expensive in human culture for cultural reasons - swords are a tool of the nobility. The nobility like things to be of high quality, and therefore expensive. And orc sword is more or less a slab of iron, ground sharp. No niceties involved in its production, all you need is to be able to smelt metal, or obtain it from somewhere.

[melinath]

I agree that it would be nice to have more on their technology. I'm just debating what that technology consists of. Good catch with that human spearman desc. I stand corrected. There is evidence that human spearmen have to use spears instead of swords. However, this is not because the humans are inferior metalworkers, but rather because the spearmen apparently have to buy their weapons themselves and apparently don't have the money to pay for a high-quality weapon. If you want to compare technologies, compare the higher levels, which in each society would have the peak equipment.

Note also that the new orc portraits are based on the theory that orcs scavenge a lot of their equipment.

[Skrim]

Well... if human level-1 melee units (Spearmen) have to use spears, due to them being cheap and easy to acquire and train with, then why do the Elves' level-1 units (Elvish Fighters) use swords? Their swords are pretty finely crafted too, not sharpened slabs of metal like the Orcs' swords. And this is despite Elves not being known to be the greatest metal-workers in the Wesnoth-verse, possibly 3rd or 4th in line after the Dwarves, Drakes and maybe humans.

I think a better explanation for the humans' usage of spears and polearms in general would stem more from their rank-&-file combat style as opposed to other limitations. Even in history, most basic infantry weapons were polearms, since they worked better in formations and needed less space and less training than swordsmanship. Swords were actually used as sidearms more often, instead of being main weapons.

As for the Orcs, they don't really use swordsmanship at all, but just swing their big sharpened metal sticks around and use their sheer strength to make up for whatever they lack in finesse or skill. Keep in mind that Grunts, despite this, still have lower base damage(18) than Elvish Fighters(20) or human Spearmen(21).

[thespaceinvader]

Because elves have several decades in which to train and acquire/make/purchase equipment. They probably would be the best smiths if they were not allergic to iron, and if they put their minds to it. Elves are better than everyone at everything, remember

[doofus-01]

I've thought long and hard about it, and the reason for the different weapons is this: Magic

I am unconvinced by the arguments here, but realize nothing is going to come of this. I do think Skrim's Spearman explanation would be better than the current one though.