Thunderer/Bowman Dagger/Short Sword

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Thunderer/Bowman Dagger/Short Sword

Post by Zakalwe »

This is a very minor aesthetic point but the Dwarven Thunderer uses a dagger (basically a 1 foot knife) that does 6-2(!!) damage whilst the Human Bowman uses a short sword that does a rather lower 4-2 damage.

I totally agree that this is great game balance, I do not propose any change to the damage.

I would just like to propose that the names and icons for the two weapons/attacks be switched around so that the Thunderer gets the short sword and the bowman gets the dagger. To me that makes more sense because then the weapon would reflect the damage dealt.
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Re: Thunderer/Bowman Dagger/Short Sword

Post by Cloud »

Actually the Archer can do 5-2 in good ToD, only 1 less damage than the Thunderer. The Thief can do up to a massive 10-3 (Night and backstab) with his dagger.

Plus a dagger is a short sword to a dwarf!
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Re: Thunderer/Bowman Dagger/Short Sword

Post by Sangel »

Damage dealt isn't just a reflection of the weapon; it's a reflection of the strength and skill of the person wielding it. Here, it could be that the Dwarven Thunderer is a tough type with plenty of strength and training with his weapon, while the Bowman is a weaker conscript who was trained with a bow and handed a shortsword "just in case" - he's simply not as strong or competent in hand-to-hand.
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Re: Thunderer/Bowman Dagger/Short Sword

Post by Lyrax »

I would like the short sword better on all the archers because they all do blade damage. Having a dagger doing blade damage instead of piercing seems strange to me because daggers are not usually long enough to cut well. They are stabbing implements. If it's a cutting implement, usually you call it a sword.

Then again, the poacher could easily have a knife big enough to cut. It'll be bigger than most daggers, that's for sure.
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Re: Thunderer/Bowman Dagger/Short Sword

Post by Zachron »

Rapiers are stabbing implements too, but Fencers (and other units in said line) do blade damage as well. Wolf fangs puncture and tear, yet they are blade damage as well. The only weapons given pierce damage in current balance are things that do nothing but pierce, such as javelins, spears, pikes. (Pikemen and Halberdiers have a blade attack and a pierce attack on the "same" weapon) WINR can be used to describe the remaining inconsistencies. Balance and flavor are the two foci in these cases. Realism gets put on the back burner and usually gets left to boil over. (All things considered Wesnoth has done better in the "realism" department than most computer games of late.)
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Re: Thunderer/Bowman Dagger/Short Sword

Post by thespaceinvader »

Pikemen only have pierce attacks. Halberdiers have both because halberds have both blade and speartip by design.

A choice was made some time ago that swords and knives should to blade damage, not pierce (or, for that matter, impace, swords have flats and pommels, too, and spears have hafts and butts etc). This is for balance and simplicity reasons. We're not having the discussion again.

And yes, the difference in damage between the Thunderer and Bowman is adequately explained by species differences in strength, and individual differences in training. |
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