Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

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Alcyon
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Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by Alcyon »

I have always wondered, why certain units cannot advance further, although it would be logically consistent (at least in my opinion :wink:).

Examples are:
Inferno DrakeArmageddon Drake
LichAncient Lich
RevenantDeath Knight
SkeletonChocobone

I doubt that the balance in multiplayer games would suffer greatly and the positive effect is that there would be a greater variety of choice. :)
What is your opinion on that issue?
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thespaceinvader
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Re: Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by thespaceinvader »

Mostly, no, for balance reasons, though you're welcome to do so in SP campaigns if you want to (for the Inferno Drake and Lich examples, an alternate advancement path is available as a macro, IIRC). The Revenant - Death Knight one is an interesting case - an alternate advancement path will be made available once we have the artwork for skeleton > new level 2 unit > death knight. But usually, such paths are alternates rather than being made available in MP.
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SkyOne
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Re: Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by SkyOne »

Alcyon wrote:I have always wondered, why certain units cannot advance further, although it would be logically consistent (at least in my opinion :wink:).

Examples are:
Inferno DrakeArmageddon Drake
LichAncient Lich
RevenantDeath Knight
SkeletonChocobone

I doubt that the balance in multiplayer games would suffer greatly and the positive effect is that there would be a greater variety of choice. :)
What is your opinion on that issue?
Well, actually, those are possible to advance to the ways you are talking as an option if anyone installs just one line of the code on the main file, except "Skeleton->Chocobone". Wesnoth has designed them already.
Skeleton is the fighter, but Chocobone is the scout. That is probably why Skeleton does not advance to Chocobone.

Edit: Oh, I was a minute late to say. thespaceinvader has already told you.
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Kalajel
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Re: Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by Kalajel »

Hmm, might as well ask why the grat mage doesn't level up to elder mage…
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Zigg
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Re: Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by Zigg »

RIPLIB
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Iris
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Re: Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by Iris »

Alcyon wrote:I doubt that the balance in multiplayer games would suffer greatly
Cheap skeletons levelling up into *charging* piercers with *9* movement points?!

As if those Goddamned Bats weren't enough? (Ooh look, they are even mentioned there!)

:P
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lmelior
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Re: Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by lmelior »

Good load, not a tvtropes link here too! You could waste an entire day reading up on just the tropes present in Wesnoth. I particularly agree with Wesnoth having the Tetris Effect:
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Rakarei55555
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Re: Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by Rakarei55555 »

Alcyon wrote: SkeletonChocobone

I doubt that the balance in multiplayer games would suffer greatly and the positive effect is that there would be a greater variety of choice. :)
What is your opinion on that issue?
no

imagine if every time the ai in a campaign leveled up a skeleton, it became a chocobone. those things move fricking fast, and slaughter your units like they're peasants. the best units to fight them with are heavy infantry, which they can easily avoid with their speed, or mages, who they can slaughter with their charging attack.
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michchar
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Re: Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by michchar »

Rakarei55555 wrote:
Alcyon wrote: SkeletonChocobone

I doubt that the balance in multiplayer games would suffer greatly and the positive effect is that there would be a greater variety of choice. :)
What is your opinion on that issue?
no

imagine if every time the ai in a campaign leveled up a skeleton, it became a chocobone. those things move fricking fast, and slaughter your units like they're peasants. the best units to fight them with are heavy infantry, which they can easily avoid with their speed, or mages, who they can slaughter with their charging attack.
How bad would you have to be in a campaign for an AI to level up a skeleton?
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Rakarei55555
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Re: Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by Rakarei55555 »

occasionally the do level up

also, in south guard, you have no anti undead soldiers, no mages or heavy infantry. this makes it hard to kill them before they kill you.
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Zarel
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Re: Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by Zarel »

In addition to what other people have mentioned:

Armageddon Drake and Ancient Lich are overpowered for level 4 units.

And it doesn't make sense for a skeleton to level up into a chocobone. The skeleton just randomly grows a bird? There are no other situations in Wesnoth where units get a mount upon level-up, so I don't see why we should change that.
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A-Red
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Re: Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by A-Red »

A better way to incorporate the skeleton and chocobone would be to have a level 0 skeleton unit that can advance to either a skeleton, skeleton archer, or proto-chocobone. Actually, that might be a good idea. It would require a couple of new units' worth of art though.
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LemonTea
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Re: Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by LemonTea »

thespaceinvader wrote:The Revenant - Death Knight one is an interesting case - an alternate advancement path will be made available once we have the artwork for skeleton > new level 2 unit > death knight. But usually, such paths are alternates rather than being made available in MP.
We already have the Death Squire from Liberty to be that 'new lvl 2 unit.'
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thespaceinvader
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Re: Shouldn't Unit X be able to advance to Unit Y?

Post by thespaceinvader »

Yes, but we need one that is mainline-quality (as opposed to this Image) team coloured and fully animated. The unit name might change too.
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