Something new...

[Jacques_Fol]

Jaques, I'm glad you would like to use my music for your campaign, however I would like for you wait if it gets included, just so there aren't multiple version of it floating around. West encodes data onto the .ogg file about the composer, genre, year, etc. and would rather you use his final version than my mp3 version. Let's wait until they decide if it's going in, thanks.

Perfectly fine, of course. Given the size of the file, it also makes sense not to have several copies of it floating around, even if this might actually not be a practical concern (provided I was quick enough to remove it from my campaign as soon as the new stable release included it, so that no one downloading the add-on with this new stable version would get it a second time). Especially since the proper .ogg file is not ready, I am all the more happy to wait, and will simply make sure to reference it in the applicable scenarios once it is included in the core library.

[Jetrel]

I trust zookeeper's judgment when it comes to campaigns, so if he says the tune will fit in, I'm all for mainlining it. I think it's a great piece, it's just so cinematic that I had a hard time picturing it in a scenario.

This actually sounds a lot like the music from Diablo 2:LoD, which was very cinematic; very broken into separate stops and phrases. Remember that Diablo is a raging, quick-paced realtime action game, but despite that, the music fit it like a glove. In fact I find it some of the best "background loop" music I've seen, because it can be listened to over and over again without getting boring.* The lesson that I take away from this is that 'cinematic' music like this, with separate 'movements' to it; rather than being awkward in games, tends to work really well. Even better than stereotypical 'game music' which tends to grate on a person after you've heard the same 30 second loop over and over again.


* One should make special note, I'm referring to the D2 "Lord of Destruction" Expansion music, not the regular D2 music. The regular D2 music was good, but it was really repetitive; they brought in (afaik) a different composer for the expansion pack, and it came out really impressive as a result.

[Rain]

This piece rocks so far. The sound quality of the recording is excellent.

A rather short piece, but it'd be perfect for a storyline sequence.

Btw, I love the piccardy third. It's beautiful

[Tyler Johnson]

Thanks Rain, although I have no idea what piccardy third means. I'll assume you're talking about the 3rd note in the scale, but I've never heard the term piccardy before.

[Turuk]

Some reference: Picardy Third

[Rain]

Piccardy third is a simple enough mechanic whereby the key signature of a given piece remains rooted in minor for the duration of the piece and then ends with the last chord being in major. Kind of an A HA! moment in 17th century baroque where it was predominately featured as an aesthetic in church writing to exhibit, musically, the stoic somber nature of god for a majority of the piece then ending in a more hopeful alignment with the last chord in major.

These are simplified terms, but it's easier to hear than to explain.

[Tyler Johnson]

Ah yes, I looked it up in my essential dictionary of music. You must be talking about the end of the first section transition into the 2nd section. Thanks, I wanted to end it nicely, kind of like that part was over, now time to start something else. A minor chord would have worked as well, but I accidentally stumbled upon the PIcardy third idea and I stuck with it.

[Rain]

Ah yes, I looked it up in my essential dictionary of music. You must be talking about the end of the first section transition into the 2nd section. Thanks, I wanted to end it nicely, kind of like that part was over, now time to start something else. A minor chord would have worked as well, but I accidentally stumbled upon the PIcardy third idea and I stuck with it.

/nods. I think it works

Also, could you possibly explain your process of rendering sounds from choosing instruments to final mixdown?

[Tyler Johnson]

Also, could you possibly explain your process of rendering sounds from choosing instruments to final mixdown?

Hmm, I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. I just bounce my MIDI files down in cubase to audio files, usually 1 for each section, strings, woodwinds, brass, metals, drums etc. I used to do each instrument, 1st violin, 2nd violin, etc. but it was too detailed. I figure I can still get a great sound mixing each family separately.

As far as the instruments, I used the East West Silver library for this one. There's not a whole lot there, but it's affordable and if you spend enough time, you can get some good quality sound out of it.

So basically, I load the instruments into Cubase, write my stuff, bounce it down, mix it, then master it.

I hope that answers your question.

[Rain]

I am kind of curious as to the whole process for you.

For more solid examples... When I am setting up a new orchestral piece, I generally use a few constants. I end up utilizing quite a few auxillary plugins by the end of it, involving eq, compression, peak limiter and reverb, usually. This is supplementary to the reverb and eq sound envelope edit options/functions available natively within the kontakt east west framework.

I apply the compression first to provide overhead and work from that. Then I might do a bit of sound shaping within kontakt before applying other plugins at later points to flesh things out...

But, I believe I'm relying upon auxillary elements too heavily. possibly not spending enough time in kontakt playing with things like attack, release... or utilizing the eq and reverb settings found there to their fullest.

So I am interested in understanding a bit more what you do in your sound shaping.


What are you generally doing to shape things such as note velocity, attack, release?
Are you utilizing the eq option in kontakt> reverb?

Use aux. plugins? If so, what have you been using for your recent orchestral work?
... compressors, limiters, reverb or whathaveyou... and which element you generally apply first... or last! ... or are you shaping the majority of your instrument sound with the eq plugins and sounds found directly in the east west sound bank found in kontakt?

Things like that.


What went into the process of creating the sounds, present in your current orchestral setup?

[Tyler Johnson]

Hmm well the only plugin I used was a reverb in logic. I prefer logic reverb to cubase by far. Honestly I didn't even touch the envelope generator at all. I am quite happy with the default ewql setup. All of the notes and midi control messages were done on the piano roll in cubase. It's just a lot of tedious work making each note sound the way I want It. Velocity, expression and modulation are key ingredients to breathing life into your compositions. Bit honestly I'm just a beginner at this stuff. There are people on this forum that are way ahead of what I'm doing. I'm just doing the basics with a basic library. I hope this helps.

[Rain]

thanks.

[PPH]

Not bad. It has a sort of Danny Elfman-esque sound. It doesn't sound much like a battle theme. But I don't think it would be out of place in the game.

EDIT: I'm listening to it for the second time. Very nice work. I'm almost sure you like Danny Elfman now. Is this finished? The only flaw I find is the ending, in case it's finished. If it's not, then of course, it's not a flaw

[Tyler Johnson]

Yeah it is a finished piece. The end is supposed to be that way, an ominous fade out while still maintaining loopability. What exactly was the flaw that you found? And yes I am a fan of danny elfman but this wasn't inspired by him at all.

[PPH]

Oh, if it's meant to loop, then there's no flaw at all. I thought the piece just stopped, in a surprising way that left me waiting for the ending. But, if it has to loop, it's fine. I'm a newbie here. I forgot music was supposed to loop.

Like I said: it's very good.